Questions about (British) slip lead - Page 7 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #61 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 11:09 PM
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The automatic "Sit" can be done but this dog needs to start walking properly first.
I agree....mostly. My memory suggests my dog spent more time sitting as she learned to walk properly. There were times when it took 5 minutes just to reach the end of my short driveway....she forged...correction...I stopped...reset her and tried anew. Two steps..she pulled ...we stopped..and tried again....must have done that more times than I can recall...I'm guessing if she figured it out quicker or I conveyed the idea better to her..it would have taken her 15 seconds to get to the end of the driveway. So, the other 4 mins and 45 secs...she spent sitting as we tried again and again. So, as she learned some rules to the walk....she most certainly became familiar with sitting when I would stop. In my situation.....the default sit was somewhat a byproduct of her learning she wasn't being trained to be a sled dog.

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post #62 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 12:08 AM
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I agree....mostly. My memory suggests my dog spent more time sitting as she learned to walk properly. There were times when it took 5 minutes just to reach the end of my short driveway....she forged...correction...I stopped...reset her and tried anew. Two steps..she pulled ...we stopped..and tried again....must have done that more times than I can recall...I'm guessing if she figured it out quicker or I conveyed the idea better to her..it would have taken her 15 seconds to get to the end of the driveway. So, the other 4 mins and 45 secs...she spent sitting as we tried again and again. So, as she learned some rules to the walk....she most certainly became familiar with sitting when I would stop. In my situation.....the default sit was somewhat a byproduct of her learning she wasn't being trained to be a sled dog.

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Aw ... I see ... that is very similar to how I view it. If the dog acts like a "tool" we don't move.

Once they "Stop" being "toolish" we proceed. I much prefer the "Sit" to be a volunteer behavior rather then compelled.

I do like the upward leash "pressure" and two fingers on the butt thing. If I teach " Sit" in the future most likely that's how I'll do it?? But for walking ... my only requirement is for the dog to not pull and if I stop they stop, I don't care if they sit or stand as long as they are calm and not reactive ... it's all good.

But it sounds like with the pullers, the process done effectively regardless of tool is first ... OK pulling is getting me nowhere ... so I'll stop doing that ... and wait, and ... perhaps I'll Sit while, I await further instructions??

I've seen that with rescues, I tell them "nothing" they offer the behavior a "sit" and then we go. Works out fine ... now the ones that don't wanna move ... that's another kettle of fish!
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post #63 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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@Cassidy's Mom
Thank you! That's a great suggestion. I did it yesterday evening and this morning. With all of these different exercises I've been doing, including this one now, I really noticed a big progression. Most of the times I just have to say "Sit" once, although I do need to tighten the leash after it for him to get his attention to me.
He does however sit like wants to sit, being it next to me, or a few steps behind or with a 45 degree angle from me (with his butt facing West from my position). Can I simply just place him in the right position with my hand, and then mark. Or do I need to take him out of the sit position and lure him next to me, ask to sit again, until he sits on the right spot, next to my left leg.

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It can also take me minutes to simply get off my driveway. I won't walk if he keeps pulling, so I walk back. He is hardheaded though..


I have a question about that. As I am practicing "Sit" a lot more and also correcting bad behavior (like pulling, walking in front of me, focussing on dogs, etc), he seems to be getting annoyed sometimes and out of nowhere starts running away from me (still on leash), more than he used to do. Anybody familiar with this behavior? Can it be he is not understanding why I am correcting and is simply not happy with it?

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post #64 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 08:40 AM
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@SuperG
It can also take me minutes to simply get off my driveway. I won't walk if he keeps pulling, so I walk back. He is hardheaded though..


I have a question about that. As I am practicing "Sit" a lot more and also correcting bad behavior (like pulling, walking in front of me, focussing on dogs, etc), he seems to be getting annoyed sometimes and out of nowhere starts running away from me (still on leash), more than he used to do. Anybody familiar with this behavior? Can it be he is not understanding why I am correcting and is simply not happy with it?
this goes back to engagement and reward. So you are correcting him but what are you doing for him to tell him when he's done right?

This scenario should go....walking with loose leash 3 steps, reward party, walking...oops! Starts to pull!, correct and sit, reward for sitting (You have given a command! And he did it! Reward for that!), walking with loose leash 1 step 2 steps 3 steps, REWARD.

No, he has no idea what you are correcting for because it's new to him and you haven't taught him the behavior you want. And if he's runing from you then your corrections are to harsh for the dog he is OR you aren't rewarding enough so all he knows is punishment.
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post #65 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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Alright, again very clear. I've got to ante up the rewarding, which I am not doing enough.

The only correction I give is by gently (although that's not the case when he jumps towards someone/something) pulling the leash upward. The "pop's" are sometimes a bit quicker/harsher, especially when he keeps trying to turn around to see something. Maybe it is too much for him, I have to keep my eye on it. I don't want him to see me as a partly boogieman.

Either way, long story short, I'm not doing it right. I'm focussing too much on the correcting part.

Thanks

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post #66 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 09:58 AM
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I think you are changing everything up on and him and it's creating conflict because he doesn't know what is expected. To fix that you need to reward him when he's doing right so he understands what you want.

You have to teach him the position that earns him the reward. It's literally called the Reward Line! Out in front earns me discomfort. Beside my guy earns me my food. use his meals to train him. Then he's hungry, a little more motivated and you don't overfeed him.

Keep the corrections the same intensity and up the reward. have a party. If you don't look like an idiot when rewarding your dog, you aren't doing it right!
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post #67 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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Haha, ok, got it. Gotta find my inner clown again.

Just to clarify, are you meaning his whole meals? I feed him thrice a day, evenly divided. Should I just fill my pockets (or my yet to buy treat bag) with the usual meal amount and use it to train him? Or should I train him right before his meal?

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post #68 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 11:22 AM
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Haha, ok, got it. Gotta find my inner clown again.

Just to clarify, are you meaning his whole meals? I feed him thrice a day, evenly divided. Should I just fill my pockets (or my yet to buy treat bag) with the usual meal amount and use it to train him? Or should I train him right before his meal?
Totally agree with Jax - at this stage I'd be focusing much less on corrections and much more on rewarding the behavior (or in this case positioning) that you want. Corrections can always be added later, once he grasps what you expect of him. And definitely up your enthusiasm level. If you're not having fun, he's not having fun! I think you said you're a guy? I've noticed that men often tend to have a harder time with this than women do. Find your inner high, happy voice. Don't be afraid to act silly.

This is my favorite treat bag: https://www.amazon.com/Rewards-Delux.../dp/B009EVRAPE

It's got side pockets where you can put poop bags, a clicker, lip balm, etc. There's a small front pocket and a large main pocket. The big pocket has a magnetic closure rather than a hinged opening, which I prefer because after purchasing numerous hinged bags, the hinge always ends up breaking. And it's large enough to hold tons of treats and also a ball on a rope as a reward toy. There's also a smaller inner pocket where I can drop my cell phone so it's not in with the treats.

I usually train before I feed. If he'll work for kibble, measure out his meal, and whatever you don't use for training you can dump in his bowl when you're done.

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post #69 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 11:39 AM
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I don't want him to see me as a partly boogieman.
I heard someone mention "engagement".

"Engagement is the most important thing you can have with your puppy. Engagement means your puppy wants to be with you and it wants what you have." Frawley

You've probably seen the video but the words spoken before the session starts are worthy.


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post #70 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 11:46 AM
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Michael Ellis is a prefect example of using engagement in training - in addition to using lots of rewards, luring into position, and being upbeat and happy in his demeanor, he uses LOTS of movement as well! Just standing there is boring, but you can see this puppy is having a great time. Even though it's off leash, he has no trouble keeping it with him and wanting to work.
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