Runs from us (recall issues...) - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-10-2013, 11:16 PM Thread Starter
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Runs from us (recall issues...)

Okay, so I know this is partly (if not completely) a training issue, but I just want some confirmation, consolation, and perhaps some trouble shooting ideas.

Our nearly 7 month old male, Stride,r is an amazingly obedient dog. Even the vet said that he is really well behaved and we got an A+ on our training regiment with him. Our issue right now, is that when he is in the yard, if he has a stick or a pear that has fallen off the tree (read: something we don't want him to have), or if he plain just isn't ready to go inside, he will run from us. I can't let him in the yard off leash or we will never catch him! If we are doing training, sit, down, stays, and come, he is amazing. But if its just play time, he won't come unless I have a treat, and even then it's not 100%. It used to be until he wised up that it was just to get his "prize" away from him or that we are going to make him come inside.

So I guess my question is, what else can I do besides continuing with the come command for a constant recall? Is it partly an age thing?

Thanks!

Tami


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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 12:42 AM
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I went through this with lulu about the same age. What I did was to trick her. I would play with the flirt pole and then switch to the ball. She would lay down once she got the flirt pole toy and I would go and love on her saying what a good girl she was, then I would toss the ball again and then again the flirt pole. This way she had no idea when I was going to pull her in to the house. It has gotten a lot better and we rarely have problems any more.

Just a thought.


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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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We've kind of resorted to tricking him in much the same way. I know we need to work on the drop it command more too. I was kind of hoping it was something he'd grow out of with age and training.


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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 02:19 PM
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I have a similar problem with Zeeva. It sounds to me like you chase him when he disobeys a recall? This turns into a game with your pup so I wouldn't do that. I know it's hard not to on occasion but do not chase...

I used Zeeva's tug toy to lure her in. And play fetch a few times then grab her (but this is probably a no no). Sometimes a treat. Different things on different occasions to keep her interested and not feel tricked.

It didn't really get better with time :c. Zeeva is 3 1/2 now and when our neighbors dogs are out she fence fights and won't recall at all. I use the beep on her e collar to stop her. For some reason she's terrified of that beep even when her collar isn't on her. It's like reverse clicker training but I dunno. I didn't have to train her to be afraid of it...
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, it has become a game to him. I've resorted to ignoring him, but I'm not sure if that gives him the "he's in charge" signal. Ah!

I guess I just need to keep up with recall and drop it training. Hitting it HARD this week while keeping it fun, of course.


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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 03:03 PM
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If it were me, I'd carry treats with me 24/7. I'd be the fun human pez dispenser that every dog would want to be with. In the house, in the yard, on leash, off leash, every time my pup came to me when I called their name, I'd throw a party!!! Give a treat!!!! and then ignore. Let my dog go back to what ever they were doing. I wouldn't play, or train, or talk to them. Then I'd wait till they were no longer focused on me and call them back to me and repeat this over and over and over for days or longer if that is what it took.

I'd go outside and call the dog to me with a treat, when the dog came I'd throw a party and give a treat then I'd turn off like a light switch. I'd walk around the yard like I'm watching a totally fantastic Ant Parade. After my pup left my side, I'd wait a moment and repeat it again. If the pup failed to come, I'd get down on my hands and knees and say, "Puppy! Puppy! Puppy! Come! Puppy! Puppy! Puppy!" (just like when they were little) as soon as the dog came to me I'd throw a party, treat....and then start watching the Bird Follies in the air. I'd walk around and act as though what ever I am doing has NOTHING to do with my dog.

Bottom line, you've got to become more fun then what the dog thinks it's actions are causing. You've got to set your dog up to succeed. If you call your dog and it won't come - do what ever it takes, dance around like a loon - do cartwheels - what ever it takes to get your dog to come to you. But NEVER chase it!!!!! That is a game dogs LOVE!!!

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilie View Post
If it were me, I'd carry treats with me 24/7. I'd be the fun human pez dispenser that every dog would want to be with. In the house, in the yard, on leash, off leash, every time my pup came to me when I called their name, I'd throw a party!!! Give a treat!!!! and then ignore. Let my dog go back to what ever they were doing. I wouldn't play, or train, or talk to them. Then I'd wait till they were no longer focused on me and call them back to me and repeat this over and over and over for days or longer if that is what it took.

I'd go outside and call the dog to me with a treat, when the dog came I'd throw a party and give a treat then I'd turn off like a light switch. I'd walk around the yard like I'm watching a totally fantastic Ant Parade. After my pup left my side, I'd wait a moment and repeat it again. If the pup failed to come, I'd get down on my hands and knees and say, "Puppy! Puppy! Puppy! Come! Puppy! Puppy! Puppy!" (just like when they were little) as soon as the dog came to me I'd throw a party, treat....and then start watching the Bird Follies in the air. I'd walk around and act as though what ever I am doing has NOTHING to do with my dog.

Bottom line, you've got to become more fun then what the dog thinks it's actions are causing. You've got to set your dog up to succeed. If you call your dog and it won't come - do what ever it takes, dance around like a loon - do cartwheels - what ever it takes to get your dog to come to you. But NEVER chase it!!!!! That is a game dogs LOVE!!!
I agree with this, but I up the ante a hair and I use a retractable leash on puppies so that if they decide they dont want to come they can go no further either. When I trained my Samoyed as a puppy I drove my husband insane! She was on a retractable all the time, and I would sit down and ask her to come, come, come, come... just kept repeating the words no difference in my tone just kept saying it, she could not get any further away and when she moved to me the leash retracted and kept her at that distance, when she finally was to me.... PARTY TIME!! I mean it might of taken 10 minutes and I sounded like a broken record come, come, come, come, come, come and just kept letting her shorten the leash on her own without letting her get any further away... About a week of that and she has had the PERFECT recall ever since. I kept throwing parties for long after she no longer needed the retractable leash and I am yet to have her recall fail, even when I have her working goats and she is beyond excited she still will come and there is no party at the other end.

I think puppies are completely different than adults where other methods have to be used, puppies absorb things much more quickly and positive actions / treats go so much further, but also drawing that boundary with the retractable leash and not letting them get any further helps.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel and Lace View Post
I think puppies are completely different than adults where other methods have to be used, puppies absorb things much more quickly and positive actions / treats go so much further, but also drawing that boundary with the retractable leash and not letting them get any further helps.
My thoughts on this is the OP's pup is 7 months old. Starting to see that there is a wonderful world out there that has nothing to do with the handler. Then add the fact the handler is doing extensive training...so pup now sees that it can control training by avoidance.

I think there is something to be had when you allow your dog to come into it's world on it's own. Build confidence within your dog to let it become a self thinker. But, knowing you are (and will remain) the center of this world to be listened to and obeyed 24/7.

Some dogs (and I don't know the OP's pup) can develope (or encourage) a sensitivity towards the handler. Not wanting to self think at all. A handler senstive dog can be a difficult dog to work with.

Please be aware that I would only allow a dog with recall issues off leash in a small controlled area, like a back yard. I certainly wouldn't allow them off leash at the local park.

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 03:31 PM
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Some dogs (and I don't know the OP's pup) can develope (or encourage) a sensitivity towards the handler. Not wanting to self think at all. A handler senstive dog can be a difficult dog to work with.

.
I can agree, my Samoyed is more on the handler sensitive side than self thinking side, she looks to me for direction at all times, which can make some things difficult (such as when the goats dart in a way she did not anticipate she will look to me make sure she is to follow and continue instead of self thinking that she has to follow) So yes I def agree a self thinker is important, to me when I was training my Samoyed at the time she was going to be nothing more than a pet, so it was not so much a handler situation as I wanted very specific things like the perfect recall and her to look to me for direction. I guess it depends on what you want out of the dog and where you are going with it, a working dog should be more on the self thinker, a pet IMO should be more handler sensitive.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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He is not allowed off leash except in the yard, and right now, not even there.

I love the idea of a party! A human pez dispenser I will become. Like I said, he is a very obedient dog: except for here.

I think I was looking for an explanation as to why he is doing this. Is it straight up defiance? Is it just pushing the envelope? Is it an age thing? If I can put my finger on the why, I can figure out the best course of action to fix it and avoid things that may make it worse.

He definitely does find it fun. :-/ I'm making a flirt pole today so he can get his chase on in a controlled and obedient manner. I may reiterate the "freeze" command as well, which was suggested to me by a trainer when he was just a little pup and would chase after my daughter. It worked then, I'm assuming it will work now, with treats of course.

Thank you so much for all of your input. I look forward to more thoughts and suggestions.


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