Breeding Info - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2017, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Breeding Info

Hello everyone! I?m posting for a friend of a mine and we?re trying to come to a decision and need info on breeding.

We have never bred any dog at all. He currently has a german shepherd with some titles (Schutzhund III and I think SG not a bad 100% sure). We?ve been thinking about breeding him in the future with my female (IPO I) but we?re not sure if it?s a good idea because we?re not experienced and we know we should leave the breeding to experience breeders.

Our reason for breeding is to pass on their genes. I think they?re both good candidates to help the german shepherd breed. We won?t be selling them, we have family and friends that want german shepherds so we plan on just giving the pups to them. Is this a good reason to breed them?

Also we contacted a few experienced breeders from the club we go to and they?re charging us around $600 to breed them and they get first pick of the litter. We?re not really comfortable doing this or if this is even normal for breeders to charge that much to breed our shepherds.

Anyways just curious on opinions if we should do this or not. If you guys think we should, what are our options for breeding (we pay someone to do it or we do it ourselves)? If we should do it ourselves, can you guys direct me to a link or explain how to do it and what we should be expecting please? Thanks guys!

PS I?ve read and seen breeding is frowned upon so if you guys think we shouldn?t do it, feel free to say it with a good reason please seen other people just say ?no you have no clue about the german shepherd breed?

Thanks again!
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2017, 04:07 PM
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It's not breeding per se that is frowned upon... it is BAD breeding that is frowned upon.

From what it sounds like... breeding these two dogs would be a very bad idea. It is NOT as simple as putting two titled dogs together. You need to KNOW their pedigrees, how the pedigrees compliment each other, what the dogs close up and further back in the pedigree bring to the table.

I have seen plenty of purebred dogs out of titled parents that were genetic DISASTERS all because the pedigrees did not compliment each other. Stuff like weak nerves from one line pairing with civility in another that creates out right dangerous and reactive dogs.

You need to be an expert at reading pedigrees before ever considering making a pairing if you want to be a GOOD breeder and produce stable dogs.

What I would suggest if you still want to breed eventually is get involved with some dog sport, make connections there, and find an experienced breeder willing to mentor you. Your girl may or may not be breeding quality. Working her in a sport will help determine that. Your mentor will help you make the decision on the right stud for her if she is a breeding quality animal.
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2017, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoolamb View Post

You need to KNOW their pedigrees, how the pedigrees compliment each other, what the dogs close up and further back in the pedigree bring to the table.

You need to be an expert at reading pedigrees before ever considering making a pairing if you want to be a GOOD breeder and produce stable dogs.
Voodoolamb, I have seen similar comments in the past and always wondered what this actually means. Is this information that can be understood by looking at the "paper" pedigree? Or do you mean actually KNOWING the dogs in the pedigree and understanding their behavior and how it might work with another dogs traits?

I assume the later, and imagine only very few breeders would have the knowledge/experience to make a good pairing (not saying that's a bad thing).

Just curious...
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2017, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Solamar View Post
Voodoolamb, I have seen similar comments in the past and always wondered what this actually means. Is this information that can be understood by looking at the "paper" pedigree? Or do you mean actually KNOWING the dogs in the pedigree and understanding their behavior and how it might work with another dogs traits?

I assume the later, and imagine only very few breeders would have the knowledge/experience to make a good pairing (not saying that's a bad thing).

Just curious...
Yes.. it is the second. You have to KNOW the dogs in the pedigree to make a good pairing. I mean you may not need to personally know them, but you need to know what they bring to the table and what they pass on. Information gathered from being involved in the breed, reading the periodicals, watching show scores, seeing progeny, meaningful discussions with other breeders/trainers/handlers about the dogs they've seen, etc.

There are far more bad breeders out there than good ones. Which is why we have so many problems in the breed.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2017, 06:47 PM
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post the two dogs pedigrees.....

then some of us can look at them


Lee
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2017, 06:53 PM
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a good match has little , or nothing to do with titles . So no formula of an IPO 111 to an IPO 1 (minimum requirement)

Who are the dogs?

They may be good or individuals that need caution and deep understanding to make a good match .

The "lines" might be inbred , or flooding the gene pool with the same repetitive ancestry , so not a reason to
breed to pass on genes or to help the breed overall.

Can't say much without knowing the pedigrees.

Carmen

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by voodoolamb View Post
It's not breeding per se that is frowned upon... it is BAD breeding that is frowned upon.

From what it sounds like... breeding these two dogs would be a very bad idea. It is NOT as simple as putting two titled dogs together. You need to KNOW their pedigrees, how the pedigrees compliment each other, what the dogs close up and further back in the pedigree bring to the table.

I have seen plenty of purebred dogs out of titled parents that were genetic DISASTERS all because the pedigrees did not compliment each other. Stuff like weak nerves from one line pairing with civility in another that creates out right dangerous and reactive dogs.

You need to be an expert at reading pedigrees before ever considering making a pairing if you want to be a GOOD breeder and produce stable dogs.

What I would suggest if you still want to breed eventually is get involved with some dog sport, make connections there, and find an experienced breeder willing to mentor you. Your girl may or may not be breeding quality. Working her in a sport will help determine that. Your mentor will help you make the decision on the right stud for her if she is a breeding quality animal.
Thank you for the response! I see what you mean. I met the dad of both pups but never met the mom of the male. To my knowledge they were checked out great on their health (I don?t know the specifics). Both are dogs have been vet checked a month ago and OFA approved for their hips.

I probably won?t be breeding them anymore. As much as we would like to, we both don?t have the knowledge of good breeding at least haha maybe after some more research to see if they?re good candidates.

I asked some experienced breeders at the club but they?re charging us $600 to breed them without knowing their full pedigree so I?m assuming this is a sign that they?re just trying to make money. I?ll post the pedigree up later on, typing on my phone right now.

Do you know any good resources in which I can educate myself to determine if they?re good candidates? When taking them to the vet, the vet says their good but doesn?t really give us specifics lol. I just got the OFA to do sports with them. My club I go too wants to breed them as well but they want to keep 4 of the pups and a $200 fee but not really my idea of good breeding unless that?s normal?
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 01:26 PM
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I personally don't think that sounds normal at all. Sounds like some people are trying to cheat you out of money and puppies. Can't word it quite right, but I would not trust them, sounds extremely fishy to me. Since you are the owner of the female I could if they charged you a stud fee for breeding to one of their studs, or got pick of the litter. But not charging you to breed your dog and then keep possibly a majority or all of the pups. That is just ridiculous. And if you are breeding it to a friend's dog there shouldn't be any charging at all unless your friend wanted a stud fee or puppy from the litter.

When breeding your female to a stud dog you don't own,generally you pay a stud fee OR the owner of the stud will take a pup from the litter. I don't know what exactly is going on in this situation with the club members wanting to get involved and charging you but it just sounds ridiculous
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Richmond Custodio View Post
Thank you for the response! I see what you mean. I met the dad of both pups but never met the mom of the male. To my knowledge they were checked out great on their health (I don?t know the specifics). Both are dogs have been vet checked a month ago and OFA approved for their hips.

I probably won?t be breeding them anymore. As much as we would like to, we both don?t have the knowledge of good breeding at least haha maybe after some more research to see if they?re good candidates.

I asked some experienced breeders at the club but they?re charging us $600 to breed them without knowing their full pedigree so I?m assuming this is a sign that they?re just trying to make money. I?ll post the pedigree up later on, typing on my phone right now.

Do you know any good resources in which I can educate myself to determine if they?re good candidates? When taking them to the vet, the vet says their good but doesn't really give us specifics lol. I just got the OFA to do sports with them. My club I go too wants to breed them as well but they want to keep 4 of the pups and a $200 fee but not really my idea of good breeding unless that?s normal?

This makes no sense to me.....someone at the club you went to wants you to breed your female to their male, you give them 4 pups and $200??? Way way odd.....not the way it is done at all!!!! You do all the work, take all the risk and they want the bulk of the production????

Hips & elbows should be rated by the OFA or SV for both parents, linebreeding should be identified and understood by the owner of the female who is the party ultimately responsible for these little lives. No one knows if this is a good combination - they just want to make puppies

Again, if you want to get me the pedigrees - I will look at them - or post the links to the parents


Lee
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Richmond Custodio View Post
Thank you for the response! I see what you mean. I met the dad of both pups but never met the mom of the male. To my knowledge they were checked out great on their health (I don?t know the specifics). Both are dogs have been vet checked a month ago and OFA approved for their hips.

I probably won?t be breeding them anymore. As much as we would like to, we both don?t have the knowledge of good breeding at least haha maybe after some more research to see if they?re good candidates.

I asked some experienced breeders at the club but they?re charging us $600 to breed them without knowing their full pedigree so I?m assuming this is a sign that they?re just trying to make money. I?ll post the pedigree up later on, typing on my phone right now.

Do you know any good resources in which I can educate myself to determine if they?re good candidates? When taking them to the vet, the vet says their good but doesn?t really give us specifics lol. I just got the OFA to do sports with them. My club I go too wants to breed them as well but they want to keep 4 of the pups and a $200 fee but not really my idea of good breeding unless that?s normal?
That does sound odd, unfair, and like the people at your club care more about making $$$ than the health of the breed. I would pass on their "offers".

As far as good resources... both Carmen and Lee have kindly offered to look at your dog's pedigree. They are both experienced breeders that have produced successful dogs... so that would be a good place to start
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