Breeding Info - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 08:26 AM
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It is definitely the job of he breeder to pay for all expenses of the pups, this includes shots, vet checks, food, bedding. Being a breeder isn't always cheap, and there could be emergency costs.

With the parents just because they both have good pedigrees doesn't mean they will mix well together to make puppies together. That's why you want to know the strengths and weaknesses or both of the parents. I understand as a dog owner it can be hard to critique your dog but you have to be realistic about what you have.

Very quick example if one dog had weaker ears that had trouble standing you may want the partner to be a dog that has very nice naturally erect ears so you aren't breeding for soft eared dogs. Basically the dogs need to compliment each other. If you have two dogs weak in the same areas you're more likely to get puppies weak in the same areas.
There are things a LOT more important than ears but it's an easy example. And along with that if you have a dog weak in certain areas they may not be any good for breeding. Regardless of it you're breeding them to a dog strong in that area. Maybe they make great pets but it's not something you want to continue to produce.
So what are the temperaments of the parents? Both stable and not shy or fearful?

Also be very careful of hay and heaters! My neighbors did that and it set their kennel on fire while they were not home. Thankfully the dogs were alright but very scary and they could have died.
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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richmond Custodio View Post
I have a spot I believe I can turn into for them to breed. It?s a 10x10 Kennel, I can put hay to keep it insulated as well as add a heater and it takes me 10 mins to clean it out (literally just take drainage out and hose it out).
Someone can correct me if i'm wrong, but the breeder's I've had conversations with say that the tie MUST be supervised so that there isn't injury to the female or male. They should not be left alone or unattended during breeding.

I know you've answered some of these questions, but I wanted to print the whole article.

THE DECISION TO BREED OR NOT TO BREED
THE FACTS: It is extremely important to learn the facts and possible consequences in advance if you are contemplating breeding your dog. In today’s overcrowded world, we-the wardens of our domestic pets – must make responsible decisions for them and for ourselves. Please review the following points carefully.


QUALITY: Most dogs, even purebred, should not be bred. Many dogs, though wonderful pets, have defects of structure, personality or health that should not be perpetuated. Breeding animals should be proven free of these defects BEFORE starting on a reproductive career. German Shepherd Breeding should only be done with the goal of IMPROVEMENT – an honest attempt to create puppies better than the sound, wonderful parents they come from. ignorance is NO excuse! Once you have created a life, you can’t take it back - even if it’s blind, crippled or a canine psychopath!


COST: German Shepherd Dog breeding is NOT a money making proposition, if done correctly. Health care and shots, diagnosis of problems and advance genetic testing to determine quality and breedability, extra food, proper facilities, stud fees, advertising, etc. are all costly and must be paid BEFORE you sell any pups. An unexpected Caesarean or emergency intensive care for a sick pup, or even a litter of sick pups as often happens with parvo, will make break – even litter become a BIG liability.

SALES: First-time German Shepherd breeders have no reputation and no referrals to help them find buyers. Previous promises of “I want a dog just like yours” evaporate. Consider the time and expense of caring for pups that may not sell until 4 month, 8 months, or longer…what WOULD you do? Send them to the pound? Dump them in the country? Sell them cheap to a dog broker who may resell them to research labs or other unsavory buyers? Veteran German Shepherd breeders with a good reputation often don’t even think about breeding unless they have people waiting for the puppies, with cash deposits in advance for an average-sized litter.


JOY OF BIRTH: If you’re doing it for the children’s education, remember the whelping may be at 3 AM, or at the vets on the surgery table. Even if the kids are present, they may get the chance to see the birth of a monster or a mummy, or watch the dog they love scream and bite you as you attempt to deliver a pup that is half out and too large some bitches are not natural mothers, and either ignore or savage their whelps. Bitches can have severe delivery problems, or even die in whelp. German Shepherd Pups can be born dead, or with gross deformities that require euthanasia. Of course, there can be joy, but if you can’t deal with the possibility of tragedy, don’t breed.

TIME: Veteran German Shepherd breeders of quality dogs state they spend well over two hours a day, every day, for months, to raise an average litter. The bitch CANNOT be left alone while whelping, and only for short periods for the first few day after. Be prepared for days off work and sleepless nights. Even after delivery, mom needs care and feeding, pups need daily checking, weighing, socialization, and later grooming and training, and the whelping box needs lots and lots of cleaning. More hours are spent with paperwork, pedigrees and interviewing buyers. If you have any abnormal conditions such as sick puppies or a bitch who can’t or won’t care for her babies, count on double the time. If you can’t provide the time, you will either have dead pups or poor ones that are bad tempered, antisocial, antisocial, dirty and/or sickly – hardly a buyer’s delight.

HUMANE RESPONSIBILITIES: It’s midnight…do you know where your German Shepherd puppies are? There are more than FIVE MILLION unwanted dogs put to death in pounds in this country EACH year, with million more dying homeless and unwanted of starvation, disease, from automobiles, abuse, etc. A quarter or more of the victims of this unspeakably tragic situation are purebred dogs “with papers. “ The German Shepherd breeder who creates a life is responsible for the life. Will you carefully screen potential buyers? OR will you say “yes” and not think about that little German Shepherd puppy you held and loved now having a litter every time she comes in heat, which fills the pounds with MORE statistics – YOUR grandpups? Would you be prepared to take back a grown puppy if the owners could no longer care for it?Or can you live with the thought that the baby YOU caused to be brought into this world will be destroyed at the pound? http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/breeding.pdf


This is from a member here:

By Akatruly 11/29/16 https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...to-nipple.html
"I finally came to accept that it was too late. I never realized how hard it is to take care of a litter. I mean, I knew it wasn't easy but didn't think too much of it. I always just imagined a dog having perfectly healthy babies that will grow up to be perfectly healthy adults. I now have so much respect for breeders because I don't think I'd ever be able to handle this again. It was definitely an emotional roller-coaster. I cried so many tears over her as I saw her gasping for air, and even then, I was still in denial and thought I could save her, until I knew I had to be strong. I put her with her mother hoping that it isn't too painful and that she passes away in peace. I just couldn't look at her suffer anymore.
I was that one person who used to think that breeding wasn't a privilege that only the top breeders should have, but boy was I wrong. Maybe if she would have been in the hands of a prof she would have made it, or maybe if I fed her just a little more she wouldn't have become hypoglycemic. I have come to the realization that dogs should not be bred, unless they are in the hands of a professional. I would never be able to do this.
As much as I can wish that when I get up, I'll see her suckling on her mom with her 6-other brother’s, I know this won't be the case.
I can only hope that this beautiful angel passes in peace.
I didn't even name her and I can't say a goodbye without a name.
So I'll say goodbye my beautiful Bella."


Please consider all of the possibilities before breeding your lovely girl.


Moms
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 09:06 AM
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There is so much to consider in this thread -

Thank you for your attitude to learn before doing!!!!!!!!!!! Read the above post over and over and over - I can attest to losing pups and having to watch a pup born with a deformity and know it is my responsibility to send it over the bridge (it lay still, only occasionally gasping for nearly 10 minutes before passing, it was not given stimulation to breathe and live - the vet who I talked to within minutes of the birth told me to not stimulate and put in the freezer to kill it - she was 50 miles away and it would not have made the trip to be euthanized).

The biggest scariest red flag I have seen is your comment that you planned to "donate" left over pups to a rescue!!!!! Rescue is there for unwanted dogs bred and sold out of greed and ignorance - donating puppies is not an act of generosity from anyone's perspective! It is an act of irresponsibility....you need to understand the dynamics of rescue before you produce puppies - the person who has a litter and dumps them - er excuse me "donates" them to a rescue is going to be perceived as heartless, irresponsible, vile and abhorrent!!!! You bring those pups into the world and they are ultimately YOUR responsibility for life.....if you consider yourself a decent human being, a responsible dog owner, then you must be a responsible dog breeder and be prepared to intercede and guarantee that no harm comes to any one of those pups by offering it a safe landing place if the owner cannot keep it.

I have one homebred dog I call my $7000 dog..........to make a long story short - I had a home bred female that I attempted to breed via shipped semen two times without success and at great expense. Then I took a week off of work, drove nearly 800 miles, stayed 6 days and did two breedings at a vet with lab tests on sperm and progesterones.....fast forward - delivered one live pup, ended up at the vet ER having a C section and picking up mom and one more live pup at 2 am afterwards.....the ER bill was over $4000......I had one pup to keep and one to sell - so the one I kept cost me nearly $7K to produce.....

Enjoy your girl - let your friends buy a pup from a responsible breeder with years of experience who can advise and assist them in raising their puppies.


Lee

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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfstraum View Post

I have one homebred dog I call my $7000 dog..........to make a long story short - I had a home bred female that I attempted to breed via shipped semen two times without success and at great expense. Then I took a week off of work, drove nearly 800 miles, stayed 6 days and did two breedings at a vet with lab tests on sperm and progesterones.....fast forward - delivered one live pup, ended up at the vet ER having a C section and picking up mom and one more live pup at 2 am afterwards.....the ER bill was over $4000......I had one pup to keep and one to sell - so the one I kept cost me nearly $7K to produce.....

Enjoy your girl - let your friends buy a pup from a responsible breeder with years of experience who can advise and assist them in raising their puppies.


Lee


Your experience was very similar to what my breeder went through with the litter my Scarlet came from, minus the c-section. It was really important to breed this bitch, but it just wasn’t happening. So pricy procedures in a different town with a repro vet. And I know she had to revive the last puppy born (which turned out to be my puppy). My breeder said you don’t want to know how much this litter cost me!

Breeding is not for the faint hearted. I couldn’t do it.

~ Diane ~

CARLY ......... Ch. Lauremi's No Reservations (AKC GCh pointed, HIC)
SCARLET ..... Lauremi's Almost Wasn't (AKC pointed)
and absent friends... SAGE ~ Lauremi's Whim Z v Jakmar ~ AKC major ptd, HIC ~ 2010-2015
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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 10:45 AM
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Please be aware that your "donation" to a rescue is a huge cost to them--IF they even have room and are able to accept it. It costs the use of a foster home, which are precious resources. That foster home frequently pays for food, toys, provides the use of beds, leashes and a host of other items that puppies or a stressed adult can, and often does, destroy. The foster also puts in the time required to begin training for the pups to make them more adoptable and to honestly evaluate temperament, activity levels, drive and everything else about the pup to be able to make a good match with a prospective adopter. The rescue or the foster would also have to finish the vaccine/wormer/vet check cycle to keep the pups healthy. The adoption fee may reach a break even point since it is a puppy, but that would only aid in covering a fraction of the rescue's cost for saving any of the other dogs in their care. All the while, your pup(s) are occupying space(s) that resulted in another dog's death because of lack of a foster home for it. Send your friends/family to a responsible breeder or a rescue. I have intact male and dogs from Wolfstraum. They are in the process of being titled or have initial titles. I have spent hundreds of hours talking with her learning about training, drives, temperament, etc. because I love to learn and want to be a better owner/handler. I would NEVER breed them. I still do not have sufficient experience with pedigrees. It takes an encyclopedic knowledge of generations of dogs to be able to make an informed breeding decision. Failure to do so results in the thousands of backyard bred dogs with poor/weak temperament that are abandoned to shelters and rescues. Of course, some of the pups produced will be just fine, but a good breeder can drastically reduce the odds of producing a pup that might be destined to a less than ideal life because of its poor genetic makeup. AND that breeder will assume full responsibility for that pup--not abandon it. This may sound harsh, but it is simply meant to be the unvarnished version of the truth of what may result from your decisions. Please rethink this many times again before making a final decision.

~Pam~
Kairo v Wolfstraum, BH, TR 1, ATB Halcyon v Wolfstraum
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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for the info!! Definitely helps a lot! I still won?t be breeding because I?m not experienced and I cannot find a good mentor. Learned a lot of things especially about the shelters! Anymore info would be awesome but thanks again guys!!
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 03:22 PM
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OP, please swap the ? for '. This makes your posts easier to read and less distracting.
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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 03:39 PM
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Richmond, congratulations, I think you have made the right decision!

Wolfy and Richmond, certain multilingual keyboards have a ? where the apostrophe normally is. Richmond, check your keyboard or phone to determine which keyboard you are using. I'm willing to bet that's what the problem is!

If you are on a regular computer, just look at the right corner of your taskbar Mine has a little icon that says ENG for "English". If I click on that icon, I can select different keyboard layouts for different languages.

I used to sometimes get office assignments where I had to type in French. That's how come I know...

Also, my cat sometimes walks across my keyboard, and manages to change the language setting!
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Last edited by Sunsilver; 10-30-2017 at 03:45 PM.
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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunsilver View Post

Also, my cat sometimes walks across my keyboard, and manages to change the language setting!
I had rats, yes rats, who would edit my typing.
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