All the things I should be doing - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 09:04 AM
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Lord v Grauen Monstab and Lord Gleisdreieck very very different dogs.

then you would want to understand the pedigree , Lord Grauen Monstab's dam Sindy Schaferliesel and Boban
Grauen Monstab.

IF that is the Lord dog in your pedigree

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post #12 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 09:16 AM
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And what about ALL the things that go well beyond the minimum requirements? At the highest level of breeding? Like Lord's Schutzhund/IPO training.
I just wanted to point out, that Schutzhund/IPO titles ARE Minimum requirements. Schutzhund was designed as a Breed Test, meaning that only the dogs that earned a minimum of SchH I would be considered breedworthy. This is still a requirement in the SV. That is why so many of the pedigrees of German Showlines and Working lines have nothing BUT SchH titled dogs in their pedigree - without titling, the dogs did not qualify for breeding, and their offspring would not be allowed to be registered.

So if someone is serious about breeding, their goal should be to title their dogs first. By going through the process, you learn about drives and temperament, and that is how you gain an insight into understanding what goes into breeding a good dog, as Cliff pointed out. It is not the title in and of itself that makes a dog breedworthy (even a weak dog can get a title with good training - doesn't make the dog any more suited for breeding post-title than pre-title), but the process of uncovering the dog's strengths and weakness through the training and trialing process is what the title reveals to the person doing the titling - so sending dogs away to be titled, is not an effective way to build credibility as a breeder.

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post #13 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 09:19 AM
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This is the very first thing I was told 18 years ago when I started researching what it took to get a GOOD german shepherd that might be breeding potential.

"What is WRONG with your dog?" Yes, you need to know your dog's good traits but until you can objectively sit down with someone and explain every fault that your dog has, without being offended, you aren't remotely ready to breed. Let alone ready to compete.

People will talk about your dog. They will mention his good points but they will even more loudly point out his flaws. And many of them won't be nearly as nice as the people here have been. Often, going to a working club, they can be even more skeptical of "unusually colored dogs" mostly because they come into it with the idea that the dog was likely not from a responsible breeder. And, again, they can be mean about it.

That thick skin is the first, and most important, step in becoming a breeder. Second is the ability to separate your feelings and love from your dog from your breeding. Third is an objective outlook at the idea of breeding and where a particular dog falls in the spectrum.
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post #14 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Glaicer View Post
Here's his pedigree.
Is he on the Pedigree Database site? Only people who are subscribed to the working dog site can view your link.

-Debbie-
Cava 1/6/18
Keefer 8/25/05-4/24/19 ~ The sweetest boy
Halo 11/9/08-6/17/18 ~ You left pawprints on our hearts
Dena 9/12/04-10/4/08 ~ Forever would have been too short
Cassidy 6/8/00-10/4/04
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post #15 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 02:27 PM
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I don't think I am subscribed to the site and I could see it-Glacier wasn't the OP
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post #16 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Dainerra View Post
This is the very first thing I was told 18 years ago when I started researching what it took to get a GOOD german shepherd that might be breeding potential.

"What is WRONG with your dog?" Yes, you need to know your dog's good traits but until you can objectively sit down with someone and explain every fault that your dog has, without being offended, you aren't remotely ready to breed. Let alone ready to compete.

People will talk about your dog. They will mention his good points but they will even more loudly point out his flaws. And many of them won't be nearly as nice as the people here have been. Often, going to a working club, they can be even more skeptical of "unusually colored dogs" mostly because they come into it with the idea that the dog was likely not from a responsible breeder. And, again, they can be mean about it.

That thick skin is the first, and most important, step in becoming a breeder. Second is the ability to separate your feelings and love from your dog from your breeding. Third is an objective outlook at the idea of breeding and where a particular dog falls in the spectrum.
THIS, a hundred times, this!!

As I explained to you in my last PM, I took a LOT of flack from certain club members because my dog was a mix of American and German showlines, and of course, ASLs have NO working ability, according to some people, and the German showlines are almost as useless. Proved 'em wrong, of course! But people are always going to find something to pick on, in any competitive sport. I put up with exactly the same thing when I used to ride. You learn to grow a thick skin pretty quickly.

Lord vom Gliesdrieck is the famous dog I found multiple times in the 7th and 8th generation of her dog's pedigree. The other Lord is there, too, but Winnal has confused the two. However, as an experienced breeder will tell you, it's the more recent generations of the pedigree that have the biggest influence on the dog, and well, those aren't all that great. Dad's side is better than mom's, and after looking at the colours of the dogs in the pedigree, I think I can see where her dog's colour came from. The colours are mostly sable, and a number of them are rather faded silver sables, with white underneath.

I've strongly advised her to get DNA done, so she has a good comeback when people insist the dog isn't purebred. I think it most likely is. And given the pedigree, I think the potential to make a good working dog is definitely there, too.
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post #17 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 03:01 PM
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I don't think I am subscribed to the site and I could see it-Glacier wasn't the OP
I know, I was curious about her dog's pedigree, but when I clicked on Glacier's link, it didn't work. It said this: Visible to registered members
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-Debbie-
Cava 1/6/18
Keefer 8/25/05-4/24/19 ~ The sweetest boy
Halo 11/9/08-6/17/18 ~ You left pawprints on our hearts
Dena 9/12/04-10/4/08 ~ Forever would have been too short
Cassidy 6/8/00-10/4/04
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post #18 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Cassidy's Mom View Post
I know, I was curious about her dog's pedigree, but when I clicked on Glacier's link, it didn't work. It said this: Visible to registered members
if you scroll down to the middle(ish) of the page, you can view the first 3 generations of the pedigree. It's kind of buried in all of the other things and is visible to non-members. Just the more detailed info is hidden
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post #19 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Cassidy's Mom View Post
I know, I was curious about her dog's pedigree, but when I clicked on Glacier's link, it didn't work. It said this: Visible to registered members
Can you see it now?

Litter from Quardes von der Staatsmacht and Inka Klidkova Dvora
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post #20 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-26-2017, 04:38 PM
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Is there some reason this dogs pedigree is such a well kept secret?
Seems to me that if I had questions about a dogs potential that would be the first step. Especially with the knowledge pool available here.
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