What are your breeding goals - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2016, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TEZPUR1976 View Post
There are many, including myself, who want to breed gsds. So an important question is

what are goals of the breeding program that we want to achieve?

My goals are

to breed WGSL gsds that are of substantial size, with good anatomy and no exaggerations. Dogs that have sound extrovert nature, good prey drive, social, good obedience, completely dependable with children.
They should be good show specimens, great family companion, and keen watchdogs at night.


With strangers neutral, neither shy nor begging for affection.
Max von Stephanitz said "The breeding of shepherd dogs is the breeding of working dogs; this must always be the aim, or we shall cease to produce shepherd dogs".
and
"Utility is the true criterion of beauty".

Show line breeding has pretty much destroyed this breed, so much so that it bled into the working lines as well.
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post #12 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2016, 05:53 PM
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lower prey drive
I hope you don't suggest to breed it.
The issue with kids is complex. GSD have reputation of kiddy lovers partly due to their strong pack instinct ( here we are talking about own pack members), partly due to their high intellect - children by their size are far out of range of dangerous people. Many dogs having started to chase kids first give up for the same reason they give up chasing pigeons.
I wish the breed was licensed, because not every family can have GSD. Surely kids would be bitten in families where parents shout at or even slap their kids.
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post #13 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2016, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by WembleyDogsUK View Post
I hope you don't suggest to breed it.
Absolutely I suggest it. All depends on the goals of the breeder's program. Not all GSDs need or should have high prey drive. There are plenty of applications for GSDs where a lower prey drive would be preferred. Service animals come to mind.

Personally I feel the sports breeders who strive for over the top prey drives for those flashy show performances do as much harm to the integrity of the breed as the show line breeders who breed for exaggerated conformation.

Our breed is a breed where balance is important. They are supposed to be jack of all trades type of dogs. Insane prey drive does not fit with that sentiment.
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post #14 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2016, 06:31 PM
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Not a breeder yet, still in the learning what I like phase and training different venue stage.

If I ever do get lucky enough to have a female to start a program with I will want a few things to come from my lines.

1. Solid nerve in all circumstances
2. Ability to know when and what are actual threats and have the courage to go into a threat.
3. Medium prey/high play- I want dogs that don't need to chase everything that runs, but that have strong pack and play and want to work WITH a handler.
4. Strong work ethic, not easily dissuaded from a task
5. Strong hunt drive
6. Moderate in structure, medium sized
7. Not "busy" all the time, good off switch
8. Ability to entertain the self
9. Social without being annoying, I like aloof but prefer a dog on the friendly side of aloof. A dog who will ignore people, but is happy to interact when appropriate.

Wow, that's a lot. And I know a few breeders that are producing close to this, those will be who I look to when and if I ever take the plunge
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post #15 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2016, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoolamb View Post
Absolutely I suggest it. All depends on the goals of the breeder's program. Not all GSDs need or should have high prey drive. There are plenty of applications for GSDs where a lower prey drive would be preferred. Service animals come to mind.

Personally I feel the sports breeders who strive for over the top prey drives for those flashy show performances do as much harm to the integrity of the breed as the show line breeders who breed for exaggerated conformation.

Our breed is a breed where balance is important. They are supposed to be jack of all trades type of dogs. Insane prey drive does not fit with that sentiment.
What experience do you have with the "over the top flashy sport dogs" and what do you know about their temperament or capability outside sport itself?

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post #16 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2016, 08:09 PM
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I'm not a GSD breeder, but have shown and bred a toy breed since 1992. In the course of talking with other breeders I always received the same response, 'You must have come from a working breed originally'. I talked about structure and temperament. But to me, whether it's a working breed or not, structure and temperament should be number one in your goals. Yes, you breed to a standard in showing, but without structure and temperament, you aren't breeding to the standard either. Both are givens in a standard. My favorite judges were the ones who came from a working breed originally.
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post #17 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2016, 08:11 PM
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Thoughts to consider before becoming a Breeder:


THE FACTS: It is extremely important to learn the facts and possible consequences in advance if you are contemplating breeding your dog. In today’s overcrowded world, we-the wardens of our domestic pets – must make responsible decisions for them and for ourselves. Please review the following points carefully.


QUALITY: SV registration is Not an indication of quality. Most dogs, even purebred, should not be bred. Many dogs, though wonderful pets, have defects of structure, personality or health that should not be perpetuated. Breeding animals should be proven free of these defects BEFORE starting on a reproductive career. German Shepherd Breeding should only be done with the goal of IMPROVEMENT – an honest attempt to create puppies better than the sound, wonderful parents they come from. ignorance is NO excuse! Once you have created a life, you can’t take it back - even if it’s blind, crippled or a canine psychopath!


COST: German Shepherd Dog breeding is NOT a money making proposition, if done correctly. Health care and shots, diagnosis of problems and advance genetic testing to determine quality and breedability, extra food, proper facilities, stud fees, advertising, etc. are all costly and must be paid BEFORE you sell any pups. An unexpected Caesarean or emergency intensive care for a sick pup, or even a litter of sick pups as often happens with parvo, will make break – even litter become a BIG liability.

SALES:
First-time German Shepherd breeders have no reputation and no referrals to help them find buyers. Previous promises of “I want a dog just like yours” evaporate. Consider the time and expense of caring for pups that may not sell until 4 month, 8 months, or longer…what WOULD you do? Send them to the pound? Dump them in the country? Sell them cheap to a dog broker who may resell them to research labs or other unsavory buyers? Veteran German Shepherd breeders with a good reputation often don’t even think about breeding unless they have people waiting for the puppies, with cash deposits in advance for an average-sized litter.


JOY OF BIRTH: If you’re doing it for the children’s education, remember the whelping may be at 3 AM, or at the vets on the surgery table. Even if the kids are present, they may get the chance to see the birth of a monster or a mummy, or watch the dog they love scream and bite you as you attempt to deliver a pup that is half out and too large some bitches are not natural mothers, and either ignore or savage their whelps. Bitches can have severe delivery problems, or even die in whelp. German Shepherd Pups can be born dead, or with gross deformities that require euthanasia. Of course, there can be joy, but if you can’t deal with the possibility of tragedy, don’t breed.

TIME:
Veteran German Shepherd breeders of quality dogs state they spend well over two hours a day, every day, for months, to raise an average litter. The bitch CANNOT be left alone while whelping, and only for short periods for the first few day after. Be prepared for days off work and sleepless nights. Even after delivery, mom needs care and feeding, pups need daily checking, weighing, socialization, and later grooming and training, and the whelping box needs lots and lots of cleaning. More hours are spent with paperwork, pedigrees and interviewing buyers. If you have any abnormal conditions such as sick puppies or a bitch who can’t or won’t care for her babies, count on double the time. If you can’t provide the time, you will either have dead pups or poor ones that are bad tempered, antisocial, antisocial, dirty and/or sickly – hardly a buyer’s delight.

HUMANE RESPONSIBILLITIES:It’s midnight…do you know where your German Shepherd puppies are? There are more than FIVE MILLION unwanted dogs put to death in pounds in this country EACH year, with million more dying homeless and unwanted of starvation, disease, from automobiles, abuse, etc. A quarter or more of the victims of this unspeakably tragic situation are purebred dogs “with papers. “ The German Shepherd breeder who creates a life is responsible for the life. Will you carefully screen potential buyers? OR will you say “yes” and not think about that little German Shepherd puppy you held and loved now having a litter every time she comes in heat, which fills the pounds with MORE statistics – YOUR grandpups? Would you be prepared to take back a grown puppy if the owners could no longer care for it? Or can you live with the thought that the baby YOU caused to be brought into this world will be destroyed at the pound? http://germanshepherd.co.in/german-shepherd-breeders
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post #18 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2016, 08:18 PM
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And you DO get them back. I've had three come back, one due to Hurricane Katrina and two due to the deaths of their owners. My contract requires mine to come back if there is no other family member or close friend who wants them and is willing to sign the same contract with me. Getting back a toy breed is not a hardship really, but full grown shepherds who may or may not be trained, socialized, etc., is a whole different story! Just housing alone is totally different!
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post #19 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2016, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorDog View Post
What experience do you have with the "over the top flashy sport dogs" and what do you know about their temperament or capability outside sport itself?
The occasional adventures in pet sitting and helping the owners of sports lined dogs work them.

And of course, more importantly, actually talking to owners about life with their dogs. Living with high prey drive dogs isn't exactly a piece of cake for many owners. I know several competent dog owners who have high prey dogs they just can't trust around other household pets and constantly have to micro manage their dogs to keep everyone safe.

That is not the life I envision with a GSD from reading the breed standard and history.
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post #20 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-27-2016, 09:32 PM
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Personally I feel the sports breeders who strive for over the top prey drives
They don't. IPO is a sport, it has established rules and standards. Without participating in IPO the dog cannot be qualified as a GSD for breeding. Here, you see, it is Germany who dictates. And it doesn't matter which one of two breeding lines your dog represents, you still have to prove that your dog is capable mentally and physically to pass those tests. No wonder why people with money prefer imports from established kennels in Germany - they are the dogs of dream. They can be Police dogs and control the crowd, and they can be service dogs, anything you want - depends on training, no behavioral issues whatsoever. And the German rules are getting harder, if you mind yourself a quality breeder - you should know that for US and any other breederis required a with DNA test, all existing in the world breeding lines should be traced back to Germany with DNA test: Sirius Dog
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