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post #1 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 09:04 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting article


Why There Will Always Be Back Yard Breeders- “I have seen the enemy, and he is us” | German Shepherd Adventures!

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post #2 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 09:12 AM
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Who wrote that? The fb page had several good responsible breeders commenting on certain posts like that and they weren't doing anything other than stating the reasons why breeding should be taken responsibly and with care! They weren't being condenscending or rude, just stating the facts that others don't want to hear. And those breeders aren't selling for outragious prices or boasting about selling to the LEO's/military. I'm sure the breeders are done with that group, too hard to constantly try to educate.

It is frustrating to the ones doing it right because the ooohh's and aaahs of all the ignorant posters on the page.
I agree with some points of that article, but whoever wrote it is biased against the breeders that are doing it right and leaning towards the ones that are doing it for other reason$ than being responsible. And there have been a couple posters, losing puppies because they have no idea how to whelp/raise a litter.

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Last edited by onyx'girl; 06-13-2013 at 09:20 AM. Reason: fixed typo
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post #3 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 09:18 AM
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Good article.

Unless the market for BYB dogs can be destroyed there will always be the demand for them. And that demand comes from ignorance and no money.

They say, "It's just a dog, I'm not paying that kind of money for an animal" And it's because they don't care about training or any sort of competition, or maintaining the breed standard.

Most probably don't even know there is a breed standard for purebred dogs.

I don't know of any way to break the cycle. There will always be a demand for BYB dogs no matter what breed they are. It's just too iffy doing that with GSD's because of health and temperament issues.

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post #4 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelE View Post
I don't know of any way to break the cycle. There will always be a demand for BYB dogs no matter what breed they are.
Like the piece said, education is key.

I don't think we'll ever eliminate the demand, but surely we can reduce it. I think that's already happening across the country -- faster in some communities than others, to be sure, but I do think it's moving in the right direction.

What I'm seeing, in my own little corner of the world, is that the problem is hardest to tackle for dogs that don't really have a strong community of responsible breeders, chiefly the crossbred "designer dogs" like labradoodles. They aren't often found in rescue (and get adopted in a nanosecond when they do pop up), and they're not purebreds so they don't have a breed standard or a lot of breeders titling their dogs in any discipline.

I have a lot of friends who purchased labradoodles and they all went to BYBs, every single one, because they couldn't adopt and they couldn't buy from (what I would consider) a good breeder. They did their best to avoid outright puppy mills and they did as much research as they could, but that was the best option they could find.

That problem I don't know how to solve. (Having people not get labradoodles in the first place would be optimal, IMO, but that's not happening.) But with a breed that has a strong and devoted following like the GSD, it seems a lot easier to resolve.

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post #5 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 11:18 AM
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Well, some of the problem is also - there are people breeding to improve the breed overall and keep the standard but there are people breeding for skewed interpretations of the standard who may have all the tiles, show ratings, hip clearanges, etc.** and produce dogs potentially worse than the random outcome of BYB breedings.

I think that was one of the points of an earlier thread on this forum about the "value" of various titles/ratings etc. It has to go a lot deeper than that.

**while blowing off other significant genetic issues from long term inbreeding even if the particular puppy is not inbred for "x" generations but is "backmassed" etc etc

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post #6 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 02:00 PM
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to the first paragraph of Jocoyn.
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post #7 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 02:43 PM
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It is an interesting article. But here is my question: What defines a back yard breeder?

I am in love with DDR dogs; I believe that these blood lines should be preserved. I intend to research them, and choose a breeding pair sometime in the next five years. If I have one male and one female, and breed one litter every couple of years, does that make me a back yard breeder? If my dogs are not titled, but come from good lines, with excellent hips, eyes, and elbows; are not protection trained, but are instead members of my family, does that by default make me a back yard breeder? I'm okay with it if it does, the reason I want to breed them is specific, to preserve these blood lines.

Or is a back yard breeder only those that put making money above the health and well being of the dogs? Because in my opinion, that makes them a puppy mill, even if they only produce a few litters a year.

A professional breeder, IMO, is someone who makes their living from dogs; training, showing, and breeding. These are the dogs that often cost thousands of dollars, and come with rudimentary training when you pick them up at 10 weeks.

Just below them (on the hierarchy in my mind ) are hobby breeders; those that love the breed so much, that they have puppies every once in a while. These are educated owners, with trained dogs that may or may not show. This is the group I would like to join, but not until I have learned enough not to make a mess of it. I know that you will never make money breeding dogs; between shots, vet visits, and the risk to your bitch, you're lucky if you break even. You do this because you love the breed, and want to see it continued in the right way.

Below this, and in my mind, just as bad as puppy mills, are the well meaning souls that breed their dogs because 'she should have a litter before we spay her'. It's the worlds worst reason to breed a dog, and often the results will (again, my opinion) end up in animal shelters.

At the bottom of the list are those that breed for profit, and like I said before, whether they produce 1 litter or 20, they are puppy mills in my book. So lets call a spade a spade. If you're breeding in your back yard to preserve the blood line, or to improve the breed, then I say, more power to you, even if you don't charge $2000 a puppy. If you're charging $100 a puppy because you're dealing in bulk, then that's a different story.

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post #8 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Jenna View Post
But here is my question: What defines a back yard breeder?
In my personal opinion? Good intentions + ignorance.

I'll use the labradoodle breeders I'm familiar with as an example. All of these breeders claimed to "love the breed" (which isn't a breed, but that's a rant for another day) and viewed their pets as cherished family companions. All of them were completely ignorant of canine genetics, health screening, the importance of titling and trialing their dogs (not for the titles in themselves, but to learn how their dogs work), or even really basic puppy-raising stuff like early socialization. One of my friends bought a labradoodle who, at six months, had never been off the family farm -- not even to go inside the owners' house.

All of them were using a nice Lab plus a nice Standard Poodle, but that is all they knew about their dogs -- that they were "nice." None of the breeding dogs were showing in any venue whatsoever, although since mostly they were AKC dogs, some did have titles in their pedigrees a few generations back. The breeders would trot these out proudly (you know, the old "champion bloodlines" thing) but, in the same breath, say it wasn't important to do similar things with their own dogs. They would say it wasn't important to screen their dogs' hips, eyes, elbows, or get any genetic disease testing done, because "hybrid vigor" would ensure all the crossbred pups were just fine.

I believe they weren't breeding (just) for money, although they probably were making some profit. I believe they genuinely do love their dogs and think of themselves as being well above puppy mills. But, despite good intentions, these people did not have any idea what they were doing.

It's one thing to understand why a particular consideration might be important and make an educated decision to forgo it in light of other, competing considerations. It's another thing altogether to just have no idea why titles or health clearances or pedigrees matter. To me, that ignorance is what makes a BYB.

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post #9 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 03:41 PM
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In my personal opinion? Good intentions + ignorance.


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post #10 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 05:04 PM
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Lady Jenna ....... I guess I would say in your case preserving to what end?

DDR lines will continue to be bred and a significant number of breeders are already using DDR stock so the lines will be preserved........so what would you be adding? How would you know your dogs are the cream of the crop and producing dogs that would be bred to by responsible folks down the line?

So many "black sable Czech DDR" dogs are already out there......with no rhyme or reason to the breeding other than Black Sable, Blocky head.......They are not rare or an oddity.

Nancy



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