opportunity, or disaster - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 05:37 AM Thread Starter
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opportunity, or disaster

Well, Ive fallen into my beautiful GSD. My most recent Ex found her off a nearby highway, while we were together. She still talks of stealing her even though I have been the one to bond with her and completly bolster her confidence. She is not the only one demanding a pup from her first litter however. Since she is not spayed I do plan on at least one litter from her, wanting a female from that litter for myself, to continue from. I dont want to be a "backyard breeder", at the same time though I kinda feel as though the opportunity has been given to me to actually become a breeder/trainer. I've had no traditional training, or even tried to get certificates for training, but all my dogs I have trained personally.

My parents, while well off would never pay to train our/MY dog so I had to learn how myself. My first dog was a golden retriever, he had started as a hunting dog, but I was a 9yr-old boy and didnt have a clue how to continue that. My first problem was to keep him from jumping on everyone, especially my younger cousins. Eventually he died of liver failure, I blame giving him bones from cooked ribs and other leftovers, I was too young to know better.

As for Shilogh, I believe she is my greatest opportunity to really get into this field. She is obviously a purebred, from the breed standards her white mark on her chest is the only detrimental factor. She was a very wary dog when I first got her, but her fearlessness could be seen in how she reacted to outside influenceses. She still hides behind me when uncertain, but I make certain to remain in her eyes the pack leader. She used to bristle and snap at any dog near her size. Now any dog she meets no matter its disposition she sees as a playmate. Too often recently she will pull at her leash to want to play even if that dog is itself bristling, snapping, and growling.

I would Like to breed her, and her subseqent generations and become a respectable breeder. I am very new to the prospect though. Overall I do understand the most respectable thing I can do is forget the whole thing and spay her. She has so much potential though, and shows all the signs of good breeding, and I would honestly like the opportunity to try. Mostly I feel I don't know the difficulies I truley face. I know I can find good studs for her, and prospective litters of her pups later on, I would have to make sure the pups were trained well for prospective owners and at the proper age to develop a proper bond. I guess what I'm trying to convey is I understand the hardship and responsiblity to not only improve the breed but make sure that each pup is brought into a caring and responsible home. I'm confused and somewhat rambling. I looked into the AKC for instance, and cannot register her in anyway for AKC since I have no clue as to who her sire or dam is. Her first litter seems to be availible for conditional registry, with full registry upto 3 gens later dependable on DNA stuff, as long as I keep record of her stud(s).

I am confused as to where to begin and continue. At her 2nd or 3rd heat should I look into finding her a stud? Her next heat would be her 2nd. Is it even possble to register her litter or subsequent gen's litters as purebred If i made sure to stud her and her pups to papered studs? Ect.

What other information might I be needing would be my last question.
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 05:53 AM
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Re: opportunity, or disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Uruku
What other information might I be needing would be my last question.
this is an excellent article: please start here.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Uruku...found her off a nearby highway,

She is obviously a purebred,

She still hides behind me when uncertain,

I am very new to the prospect though.

I have no clue as to who her sire or dam is.
5 good reasons not to breed her

TILDEN: Male: Blk/Red LHGSD: DOB: 12/24/06 65lbs of Love
KEYSTONE: Male: Sable: DOB: 2/11/13 55lbs of Go!!!!!
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 05:57 AM
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Re: opportunity, or disaster

Starting out with an unpapered rescue of unknown ancestry is NOT the right way to begin a breeding program. You know nothing about the genetics behind your female. No idea if her parents, grandparents, siblings, aunts and uncles were healthy dogs of sound temperament. Dogs produce their genetics which is not always what you see in the individual dog. Spay her and find a mentor who can teach you the right way to do things. Maybe even someone who will co-own a good female with you that you can train and title before breeding.

Lisa Clark

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 06:04 AM
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Re: opportunity, or disaster

2 more reasons: http://www.savegsd.org/ & http://www.gcgsr.org/

TILDEN: Male: Blk/Red LHGSD: DOB: 12/24/06 65lbs of Love
KEYSTONE: Male: Sable: DOB: 2/11/13 55lbs of Go!!!!!
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 08:23 AM
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Re: opportunity, or disaster

Uruku-
Nobody here is going to encourage this. Don't take it personally.
If you don't want to be a BYB, then don't breed this dog. Love her to death, learn plenty along the way, she will have been an inspiration to acquire much knowledge, but you couldn't fetch much for a pup from a dog with no known pedigree, no titles which prove her temperament and working ability, no health screenings (OFA, hips & elbows, CERF for eyes), all things that separate BYB's from reputable breeders.
You admit a lack of experience and knowledge in both training, breed standards, and genetics, she still has her own issues...but she can
help you learn all those things and be a four legged mentor and great companion to help you get to become ready for that eventual day when you could graduate to that place where you could become a breeder.

Breeding is a money loosing proposition, and the potential for heart ache is great, as the risks are many. On Petfinder, any given day,
there are over 100,000 dogs available, 10,000 or more GSDs or GSD mixes. She was lucky you found her. You are lucky to have her, but
breeding her would likely only add to this number.

I know this is not what you had hoped to hear. I am not a breeder.
I am just a guy who has hosted some wonderful dogs in my life, often imagined breeding, but know it's more time/money/work and
knowledge to do right than I have had resources for. I have trained my own, always had well behaved charges who are admired for their
behavior, but have yet to actually title one, though I am working on it. I doubt I'll ever become a breeder, but along the way, have come to understand the pitfalls and responsibilities of doing so are enormous.

Anyways, don't feel bad about nobody encouraging you to breed this girl. Do feel inspired to follow this dream some day with another down the road, but understand there is much between the desire and the ability to perform with enough knowledge and conviction to do it correctly.

Do come back here, often, it's a great place to learn! You will have many more questions, and folks here are willing to answer them. Do post pics, we can't get enough.


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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 08:47 AM
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Re: opportunity, or disaster

how can you breed a dog that you are not sure she is PURE BRED
who would want to breed to her since she has no papers? You have no idea what are hips are or what she really is

Get her spayed and keep her as a pet and thank God he let her find you

KATHY
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 08:51 AM
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Re: opportunity, or disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted By: dOg...but she can
help you learn all those things and be a four legged mentor and great companion to help you get to become ready for that eventual day when you could graduate to that place where you could become a breeder.
well said

take your time. learn from your new dog. get her spayed. attend training with her. do much research on breeding. ask lots of questions on the breeding section of this forum.
(edit: you are already in the breeders section-think i got lost)

Derek

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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 09:31 AM
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Re: opportunity, or disaster

I think this dog was put in your life for learning and experience, but NOT for breeding experience.

I'd get her spayed, and then get an ILP registration number, and then start up with getting all the learning and training and experience so if you DO still choose to breed in the future. You will do so with all the background and experience to be a 'responsible' breeder.

With SO many genetic issues in our breed, both heathwise and temperament wise, it's vital to only breed the best to the best and KNOW the backgrounds of both sire and bitch as far back as you can. So you can better assure the stability of your pups.

With so many MILLIONS of dogs killed every year in the USA, and so many thousands of those purebred, beautiful, REGISTERED German Shepherds, I know you don't want any of your pups to ever end up in that situation.

The only way to assure that is to be in a position to have great puppies. A great reputation. A position to take any of those puppies/dog BACK (rather than have them abandoned like the current dog you have, or left in a kill shelter) to later rehome them. And to be able to register all the puppies so you can keep track of them and assure THEY aren't bred (give a limited registry) unless you agree they are worthy.

Problem is that 'responsible' breeders know they aren't just responsible for their bitch. But all the puppies bred from that bitch. And all the puppies that may come from THOSE puppies.... and so on and so on and so on...... So a responsible breeder has to make sure to keep a lid on those numbers or it will be crazy!!!

Good luck and join dog clubs and training!




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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 10:24 AM
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Re: opportunity, or disaster

You posted in your introduction that it's obvious she's been abused by the shy/skittish/frightened way whe acts. She may have been, but it's very possible she's never been abused at all. The skittishness and shyness is so common in German Shepherds that there's a specific term for it-- nervy. I've had my GSD Rocky since he was 10 weeks old and I know for a fact he's never been abused, but he acts just like you describe-- shy, frightened of strangers, always nervous in new experiences. It's a very common, pervasive problem in the breed and should not be passed on. Some of these dogs become fear biters and have to be put down.

Your dog is young. She could have a whole host of genetic issues like hip or elbow displasia that won't pop up until she's older. You don't know what her genetics are like because you don't know who her parents and grandparents were.

With a non-registered, non-titled Shepherd, you will NOT get the type of puppy buyers that you want owning and raising your dogs pups. People who pay $200 or $300 for an unregistered pup are the same people who often dump them in shelters before they're a year or two old. Not always, but often.

Please please PLEASE spay your dog.


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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-15-2009, 12:43 PM
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Re: opportunity, or disaster

Ok Frankly --
I think most of us are so inarmoured of our dogs when we first get them that we entertain fantasies of breeding them. All I had to do in Wyoming was take a walk in my neighborhood. Dog after dog languished in the backyard. Few went for rides, few went for walks. That's probably your market.

Then consider -- Any reputable stud owner will not breed your bitch. You have no AKC papers, AKC will not issue papers for cases like this except for what used to be an ILP. An ILP requires the dog be spayed/neutered.
This is no way to begin a breeding program.
Tell people wanting a pup to go to Animal Control and look. One will turn up.
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