Threat... or not? - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 02:05 PM
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Good manners never make you a victim.
Oh, but they do--if good manners means saying "please" or otherwise being polite to a creep who insists on pushing his attention on a woman who is clearly uncomfortable with it.

Predators look for easy victims. A woman who feels obligated to show "good manners" to a creep has solidly established herself as a potential easy victim.

de Becker's Gift of Fear has multiple true stories of women who were brutally assaulted because they felt obligated to show good manners to a pushy creep.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 02:36 PM
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@JonRob-you are male, encouraging women to read a book written by a male. I do not mean to be unkind and I certainly appreciate your concern and obvious protective instincts, but no man will ever understand how women are forced to live if they are near people. We are trained almost from birth to do a hundred things every day of our lives to protect ourselves.
No one tells young men to carry keys between their fingers
We never tell boys to park in well lit areas
We do not teach our sons to wear gloves so they can keep their hands out of their pockets
We do not tell boys to stay out of alleys, parks, parkades and empty buildings
No boy is told to get off the elevator if a man gets on
And boys don't traditionally get rape whistles as gifts
If we were impolite to every man who got pushy with us, we would never be polite. And a vast majority of said pushy men truly mean no harm, they are taught to be forceful and aggressive. I had a boss who was fond of forcing himself into my space, with no intent to harm he was just pushy. Every time he did it I wanted to throat punch him, instead I had to smile and say please back up. I have had total strangers trap me against my own truck trying to offer unasked for assistance. Again a smile and a please back up. I actually had a man try and take a box out of my arms because it looked heavy. A lot of men are completely oblivious to the fact that they are making women uncomfortable.

Trust your gut, absolutely. If it feels wrong it is, but it is not always necessary to be rude and often in doing so we lower ourselves.
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Sabis mom View Post
@JonRob-you are male, encouraging women to read a book written by a male. I do not mean to be unkind and I certainly appreciate your concern and obvious protective instincts, but no man will ever understand how women are forced to live if they are near people. We are trained almost from birth to do a hundred things every day of our lives to protect ourselves.
No one tells young men to carry keys between their fingers
We never tell boys to park in well lit areas
We do not teach our sons to wear gloves so they can keep their hands out of their pockets
We do not tell boys to stay out of alleys, parks, parkades and empty buildings
No boy is told to get off the elevator if a man gets on
And boys don't traditionally get rape whistles as gifts
If we were impolite to every man who got pushy with us, we would never be polite. And a vast majority of said pushy men truly mean no harm, they are taught to be forceful and aggressive. I had a boss who was fond of forcing himself into my space, with no intent to harm he was just pushy. Every time he did it I wanted to throat punch him, instead I had to smile and say please back up. I have had total strangers trap me against my own truck trying to offer unasked for assistance. Again a smile and a please back up. I actually had a man try and take a box out of my arms because it looked heavy. A lot of men are completely oblivious to the fact that they are making women uncomfortable.

Trust your gut, absolutely. If it feels wrong it is, but it is not always necessary to be rude and often in doing so we lower ourselves.
Can't figure out why a woman should disregard de Becker's expertise just because he's male. Why not read his book before you blow him off just because he's a guy? You don't know me, so that's different, but here are de Becker's credentials:

"Gavin de Becker is a three-time presidential appointee whose pioneering work has changed the way our government evaluates threats to our nation's highest officials. His firm advises many of the world's most prominent media figures, corporations, and law enforcement agencies on predicting violence, and it also serves regular citizens who are victims of domestic abuse and stalking."

My girlfriend is female and a lot smarter than I am. Believe me she doesn't waste time worrying about being "rude" to creepy pushy strangers or "lowering herself" by being rude to them. She worries about survival in those situations. She has followed de Becker's advice twice and it has gotten her out of some potentially very bad situations. She couldn't care less about his gender. She cares about the fact that he knows what he's talking about and his methods work. Her "rudeness" and willingness to take the advice of a male expert are the reasons I still have a girlfriend. And BTW she is very polite when it's appropriate.

No one in this thread has been talking about interactions with the boss in the workplace. Yeah, just about everyone has to kiss up to jerks on the job. That has nothing to do with how you respond to a stranger who is pushing unwanted attention on you.

For those who are interested, de Becker also has a great book about protecting your children, which has some startling but excellent advice, called Protecting the Gift. It has one of the most heartbreaking stories I've ever heard in it, about a lady who was shopping at a mall with her bored 9-year-old son. A strange man nicely but persistently kept bugging her about letting him help her out by taking her son to a video arcade. She didn't want to "lower herself" by being "rude." Instead of immediately grabbing her son, shouting, "I don't know you! Get away from me and my son! I am not letting you take my son anywhere!" and finding the nearest security guard, she kept politely conversing with the man, worried about her "good manners" as she politely refused his offers. Then she turned her back for a moment, and when she turned around her son and the man were gone. She caught only a brief glimpse of them before they disappeared into the mall crowd.

She never saw her son again.

Everyone has to make their own choices, and I have no interest in trying to convince people who don't want to be convinced. But some folks are interested in what a true expert has to say, and maybe it will save the life of someone here (or their kid)--and not necessarily just women. Women are most often the victims, but men get victimized too, and de Becker's advice also works for them.

Last post on this. Ya'll can make up your own minds. I have dogs to train.
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 12:45 AM
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The female urge to be nice to everyone makes women charming but it also makes them victims. No one is obligated to be nice to a stranger who is intruding on their personal space. Trust your gut.

Not just my opinion. Check out Gavin de Becker's The Gift of Fear. Best thing I've ever read about this. Becker would love the OP's dog.

Some years ago, a lady I know was walking her SchH 3 GSD in a forest preserve when a creepy looking guy came skulking toward her. She told him to back off. He kept coming. She told her GSD to put the guy in a bark and hold, which the dog did. The guy froze, and after a minute she called the dog off and told the guy he could go. He did, in a hurry. Several months later she picked up the paper and saw a photo of the guy--who was violently mentally ill and had just been arrested for murdering a woman.
I wasn't going to post but this comment changed my mind. I do a lot of hiking in remote areas and as far as I am concerned, I think people are only fooling themselves if they think a barky dog is going to be much of a deterrent when there is nobody else around. IMO, if you don't know for sure that your dog will protect you, and you can't protect yourself, then just maybe that is not somewhere that one should be. There has to be places to go that are less remote and safer.

I go down to a local seawall. I go to the right from the parking lot if I have milder temperament dogs with me, or I go left into isolation if I have stronger dogs. Just a few weeks ago they found a dead body in the river to the left of the parking lot.

I know in an ideal world we should be able to go where ever we please, but it just isn't worth one's life.
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Time itself is a very powerful component of learning. So learn to wait. Learn to forgive. Learn to backup. It's all necessary for learning.

Teach! Teach! Teach! Be fair to your dog!
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 08:45 AM
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This thread makes me think of the book and movie —Lovely Bones, All the Money in the World, Criminal Minds and so many other movies. Talking about politeness also reminds me of the Real estate world. It can be dangerous. I heard some pretty awful stories of agents not listening to inner instincts- still going upstairs or to the basement or in the house to show a potential client ignoring their instincts not to come out again.

There was a book mentioned on here awhile back- The Gift of Fear that is being discussed here. It is a great book to read for oneself and also to have a discussion with sons and daughters and that they pass the information to their sons and daughters. To ignore your inner voice/instinct will make it one day disappear. Get used to listening to it and abide by it.

A protective gsd will be unable to do anything if locked in a crate, locked in a car with no access to get out. I had and have two males gsd that will not make a peep just one look will let known their intentions. It will make the cowards think about their own survival and think again. A good mention not all gsd’s will protect you. I think though training a bark and hold will be important then and can be helpful. You do have to make smart choices and know that you are the one that needs to keep oneself safe always regardless if out with your dog or not.
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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 07:35 PM
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You Never Know

You did the right thing for sure. I remember a situation I was in before I had my GSD. I was coming out of a grocery store late at night. I was parked on the side of the store and around the corner of the building came a black man in his twenty's. He said hello as I was getting my grocerys into the car. I said hello back and thats when he lifted his shirt and there was a huge semi automatic tucked in his pants. Yep, he took the gun out and pointed it at me. I froze. I became motionless for whatever reason. That is not my normal behavior, either. He threw me down on the ground with grocery's flying out all over the parking lot. It was abt midnight maybe 1 am. I just sat on the ground and couldn't move. WTH. Then a car pulled up. Six more got out of the car and they all surrounded me with guns pointing at me. I remember hearing them say, "Get her in the car now". And as they were lifting me up off the black top parking lot I heard a voice in the distance. It was a guard. He yelled out, "Is everything ok over there?" And as the 7 men surrounding me hid their guns slightly under their tshirts responded back, "Yes, everythings ok" my mind asked me that same question, "Is everything ok". Immediately I started gaining my inner composure and I responded "NO it's not... get the heck up and run!". And I did... I bolted like a jack rabbit. I hid but not far enough to where I could hear the first guy yelling, where is that bitch... where is that bitch... yada, yada, yada. Whewwwww, was I ever lucky. I have other story's but ya a GSD scares everyone.. .well except a few looney tunes. but my boy.. won't let anyone get close... he's always on guard.. even at 11 years of age.

I'm glad you're ok and thank God you had your fam with you!!

Always trust your gut.
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