When to intervene? - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 42Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
Knighted Member
 
tim_s_adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex1 View Post
I would be curious if the dog park improves obedience (not working outside the park) for those who care about obedience and how you would chose to describe your dog.
I like to practice obedience inside the dog park. I frequently have my dog do a sit/stay or a down stay while I go out to use the restroom, or need to retrieve something from the car. The first time I ever did this my dog was just 7 months old. I put her in a sit/stay about 30 ft from the entrance and went out to get something from my car. Just as I was leaving through the gate a couple was arriving with their GSD mix puppy who was a favorite wrestling buddy...and I thought oh well, so much for that practice! Fully expecting my puppy to break the sit/stay, I got what I was after and returned to find her completely ignoring her buddy's attempts to engage her in play, still sitting right where I put her with a laser focus on me!

I would say without a doubt my dog is the most obedient and well trained dog in the park always, and yes I am bragging! I periodically do obedience demos with her there which people seem to enjoy. She has an uncanny drop it, that I've mentioned before, so I have her return toys she's stolen by having her drop and leave it while running by...

Another thing that amazes people is her positioning. She knows back up, but we've also worked a lot on adjusting her position by slowly coming forward and then stopping on command.
So I'll have her back up, then apologize to her for going to far and have her walk back toward me a few steps, then sit and catch a ball. Now we're working on doing it to a count, like forward 1 step, forward 2 steps, etc. Not quite there yet, but she's catching on! Not much practical use, but it is fun!

She also does all the typical trick stuff, like roll over, play dead, spin, shake hands, etc.

My dog has had to learn one command that's sort of specific to the dog park "come away", because lots of scuffles occur near the entrance as dogs crowd around to greet a newcomer. For that reason I don't allow my dog to do that. Come away means just that, not like a come or here command, it's just come back near me. Then I tell her to wait until the new dog has had a chance to get comfortable before letting her greet them if she wants to.

But in the end, I don't think the dog park itself does anything to improve obedience, practice does! Though it would probably be difficult to find a more distracting environment to practice in, it's really all about practice and repitition!
Sabis mom likes this.

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Mark Twain

Tim
tim_s_adams is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
Knighted Member
 
tim_s_adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabis mom View Post
My Dane of all things got attacked at a dog park. She was the friendliest dog on the planet but weirdly the one most likely to get bitten or attacked. Perhaps because she liked to give kisses and lean on other beings.
The day of the actual attack she had been running with her Borzoi friend and when he left she was standing beside the fence seeing if he was coming back. A small BC mix? wandered over and started nipping at Freeways legs, which I put a stop to and we started to wander the other way. Nippy dog promptly gets into it with 3-4 other dogs one being a large houndish thing and Freeway being the peaceable sort ambles over to take a look. I promptly follow and in a split second, as I am grabbing her collar(she was deaf), Freeway becomes the target of an all out mob which quickly grew in size and ended with me kicking several dogs and yelling at a few owners.
The end result was some stitches and a sulking Dane but we seldom went to dog parks after that.
Bud was surprisingly good with other dogs but invariably ran into the jerk dogs that wanted a piece of him and he never walked away from a good fight. Sabs was not good with intact males and in general disliked rude dogs, so we avoided dog parks for the most part.
I can read my dogs and usually a "knock it off!" deters nonsense behavior but I think in general too many owners let things escalate too far to stop. The dog parks here have largely become a haven for ill mannered and poorly trained dogs, coupled with the purely positive, wannabe trainers throwing their 2 cents in. Not places I choose to be.
I've noticed this as well with GDs...must be fear-based from their size. At our park there was recently a GD family reunion...they appropriated the small dog area to avoid any conflicts...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20180616_172803.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	284.7 KB
ID:	511549  

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Mark Twain

Tim
tim_s_adams is online now  
post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 06:17 PM
Crowned Member
 
wolfy dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 9,267
Your dog in a down stay while you are in the bathroom? Seriously, or are you pushing us? You are asking for trouble. I hope you'll let us know if that ever happens. Your dog and you must have some guardian angels.
GypsyGhost likes this.

Last edited by wolfy dog; 09-15-2018 at 06:21 PM.
wolfy dog is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
Knighted Member
 
tim_s_adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magwart View Post
We prefer to go to structured off leash field exercises that our trainer does -- he blocks out a dog park early in the morning through the city park service, only his alumni and current students are allowed there, everyone does what he says, no toys, and if any dogs are rude (e.g., humping), who ever is closest verbally corrects, and if that doesn't work and they're trying to start something that could turn into a fight, they get swatted lightly on the rump with a soft leather leash before it gets very far. Nothing ever escalates when it gets nipped in the bud -- even hard stares aren't allowed. Chasing a tiny dog like Tim described would trigger the dressage whip loudly smacking the ground by the chasing dogs, using the sound and the surprise to snap them out of the prey drive. Even the people aren't allowed to shriek and squeal -- you talk quietly as you walk the perimeter (no sitting, no phones, no reading), or you talk like a boss and correct something going on next to you (and if you can't, you get out of the way for the ones who can). Everyone also knows that it's therapy for some of the dogs who are learning how to tolerate other dogs and learning to mimic the pack -- and the trainer is very focused on using it that way for dogs who need it, so people just kind of understand and try to support the owners of "works in progress" because we have been there and made it through to the other side. He does limit the number of "unstable" ones on the field at a time, so that those can absorb the energy of the stable pack -- too many unstable ones wouldn't work.
Here's a video about some trainer I don't know who uses the technique D. Russell pioneered:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVqDsNKpDE0


For all those who think dog aggression isn't fixable, D. Russell's life of training proved that it absolutely is! This documentary about D. Russell has lots of film footage of the "master" conducting it -- and interviews with him while he was alive. He described it as "poetry in motion": https://www.mcsquaredoodles.com/blog...review-dog-man

It's not easy to get the exercise right, but when it is done "his way," it's a really beautiful to observe -- we've had up to 16 GSDs, and at least as many other random breeds, large and small on the field for one glorious hour of "just being a dog." This newsletter has an article in D. Russell's own words about the exercise, and the importance of letting the dogs teach each other ("The Contrary Dog Trainer") -- it's a good explanation of why it works for people who think it's nuts to put that many dogs on a field together off leash, even dog reactive ones:

http://www.canineprofessionals.com/a...winter2006.pdf


At the dog park, we try to go with friends and keep to ourselves. All of us are right in the mix of it with our dogs, and we all trained the same place. Other dogs can join in our games (as we're having fun)...if they're nice. If they're not, we run them off if a verbal correction doesn't get them to be nice. A group of confident, experienced dog people shoo'ing them away really does work. We may get called "snobby" by other people there, but so what? Our dogs just expect us to keep the jerks away because they trust us to be in charge. (It probably helps that one of our group members is a SWAT officer, and NO ONE is messing with that big human, even if he's not in uniform and they don't know his job.)

The nice thing about organizing a meet up with friends is that our dogs know each other, they romp, and if anyone gets too rough, no one's feelings get hurt if someone else corrects your own dog for getting out of hand, or if someone elbows you and says, "Get in there." Everyone we hang with knows how to use their deep, serious voice and our dogs who know that voice means business.

FWIW, I learned how to "dog park" years ago, when we were young newbies with the help of the dog park's "boss lady" who had a pack of Shepherds that listened to her well -- all the dogs in the park did, in fact. She was right in the middle of the romping, refereeing, she had the "I'm the boss" vibe that the dogs respected, and she corrected in deep, guttoral tones that they understood were corrections. It only took one word, and even stranger dogs broke off bad behavior because her timing was flawless -- nothing escalated around her because she spotted hard stares, intent to hump, and all the stuff that is early-warning of a "crap starter." The one time one ignored her, she stomped between it and the other dog squared her stance and stared with a hard "NO"...and it then decided to slink back to its oblivious owner. Most dogs wanted to appease her, and not just her own! When your park has that lady (or you become that lady) problems are a lot less likely to happen.
Thank you so much for sharing these links! I wish I'd have known about Mr. Russell's work when I was down there working in Baton Rouge!

I was definitely thinking of you @Magwart when I included the link to Aimee Sadler's work with play groups for shelter dogs. I hope you checked it out!

You are amazingly fortunate to have a group like you described. I'm jealous!

And to get back on topic I am definitely like the "Boss Lady" you mentioned! I am always watchful, I always intervene when I see things that are likely to escalate into a fight, or when a dog is being bullied, and I have a deep voice that dogs just seem to respond well to. Beyond that though, I learn every dog's name, and I engage the owners (everyone likes to talk about their dog!), so I know all the regulars by name as well. And most dogs come by to greet me when they arrive! Even a couple that don't allow anyone else to pet them ever...

And I'm happy to say that not a single dog of any size has been injured in the 15 months I've been going there! Though there were a couple human injuries sustained while incorrectly trying to break up fights, which is why I always try to help! I've broken up 100's of dog fights and have never been bitten doing it - knock on wood!

So I certainly don't suggest anyone intervene in a dog fight without first learning how to do so safely! But I do think if more people would intervene BEFORE a fight breaks out, it would avoid lots of problems! Do it for the dogs, not the clueless owners! Just saying something to break the spell is often enough...

Just the other day I broke up a "near" fight between two male huskies. They were doing the stiff legged walk around each other, then escalated to both standing on their hind legs locking front legs and showing their teeth at each other. I picked up a jug of water, held it up and told them loudly that "I have a jug of water and I know how to use it" LOL! They slowly lowered themselves back to the ground and went their separate ways...problem solved!
Sabis mom likes this.

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Mark Twain

Tim
tim_s_adams is online now  
post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 08:30 PM
The Friendly Neighborhood Witch Mod
 
GypsyGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim_s_adams View Post
I like to practice obedience inside the dog park. I frequently have my dog do a sit/stay or a down stay while I go out to use the restroom, or need to retrieve something from the car. The first time I ever did this my dog was just 7 months old. I put her in a sit/stay about 30 ft from the entrance and went out to get something from my car. Just as I was leaving through the gate a couple was arriving with their GSD mix puppy who was a favorite wrestling buddy...and I thought oh well, so much for that practice! Fully expecting my puppy to break the sit/stay, I got what I was after and returned to find her completely ignoring her buddy's attempts to engage her in play, still sitting right where I put her with a laser focus on me!

I would say without a doubt my dog is the most obedient and well trained dog in the park always, and yes I am bragging! I periodically do obedience demos with her there which people seem to enjoy. She has an uncanny drop it, that I've mentioned before, so I have her return toys she's stolen by having her drop and leave it while running by...

Another thing that amazes people is her positioning. She knows back up, but we've also worked a lot on adjusting her position by slowly coming forward and then stopping on command.
So I'll have her back up, then apologize to her for going to far and have her walk back toward me a few steps, then sit and catch a ball. Now we're working on doing it to a count, like forward 1 step, forward 2 steps, etc. Not quite there yet, but she's catching on! Not much practical use, but it is fun!

She also does all the typical trick stuff, like roll over, play dead, spin, shake hands, etc.

My dog has had to learn one command that's sort of specific to the dog park "come away", because lots of scuffles occur near the entrance as dogs crowd around to greet a newcomer. For that reason I don't allow my dog to do that. Come away means just that, not like a come or here command, it's just come back near me. Then I tell her to wait until the new dog has had a chance to get comfortable before letting her greet them if she wants to.

But in the end, I don't think the dog park itself does anything to improve obedience, practice does! Though it would probably be difficult to find a more distracting environment to practice in, it's really all about practice and repitition!
Kind of off topic, but why arenít you competing with your dog in something? She sounds so amazing!

Train the dog in front of you.
GypsyGhost is offline  
post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
Knighted Member
 
tim_s_adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy dog View Post
Your dog in a down stay while you are in the bathroom? Seriously, or are you pushing us? You are asking for trouble. I hope you'll let us know if that ever happens. Your dog and you must have some guardian angels.
Not sure why you'd think this is "asking for trouble", but I assure you we do it frequently! And she's very adept at communicating to other dogs that she doesn't want to be bothered when she's working

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Mark Twain

Tim
tim_s_adams is online now  
post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 09:48 PM
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim_s_adams View Post
Not sure why you'd think this is "asking for trouble", but I assure you we do it frequently! And she's very adept at communicating to other dogs that she doesn't want to be bothered when she's working
I admit I'm not a dog park person, but I don't think its fair or a good idea to put your dog in a vulnerable and basically submissive position where other dogs can make contact with her. Adept at communicating sounds kinda similar to defending herself, so I thought I'd intervene.
GypsyGhost and tim_s_adams like this.

Doc

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Steve Strom is offline  
post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
Knighted Member
 
tim_s_adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyGhost View Post
Kind of off topic, but why arenít you competing with iyour dog in something? She sounds so amazing!
Thank you, she is becoming a really good dog!

I actually have been training dogs since I was 10 yrs old. I've never owned a dog that wasn't trained to know both verbal and hand signals, and I probably never will. BUT!

I've never "competed" in anything with any dog I've ever worked with. It wasn't until joining this forum, and hearing all your, collective your not you specifically, stories that competition started to peak my interest! So, I thought about, and trained Nyx, for a BH to get the ball rolling

Sadly, the local club didn't want to work with me because I was not totally pumped up and ready to title her beyond the BH. They're small and don't have time for people who aren't committed, so I get it.

Also, Nyx is a BYB dog, and although when I bought her the breeder assured me that the Dam was in the process of being registered, it hasn't happened... So all I could possibly hope for is to register her with the PAL program...which requires her to be spayed. She's only 20 months, and I will not consider spaying her until 2 yrs or beyond, so even AKC obedience stuff is not an option for us.

Honestly though, I'm content training her and doing these obedience demos for now. Maybe in the future we'll get into some competition, I don't know...

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Mark Twain

Tim
tim_s_adams is online now  
post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 10:38 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGloomy View Post
Thank you very much for your contribution
sorry for the short quote I.m a new member and are finding my way around. Hopefully future quotes will contain mote substance.
tangelo is offline  
post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-15-2018, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
Knighted Member
 
tim_s_adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Strom View Post
I admit I'm not a dog park person, but I don't think its fair or a good idea to put your dog in a vulnerable and basically submissive position where other dogs can make contact with her. Adept at communicating sounds kinda similar to defending herself, so I thought I'd intervene.
I appreciate your concern Steve, thanks for stepping up! But I think we're fine, my dog is pretty good at comminicating...almost as if dog is her native language. And so far it hasn't ever resulted in an issue of any kind. She tells them not now, and they seem to get that pretty well. So I think we're good.

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Mark Twain

Tim
tim_s_adams is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When to intervene? Chris1N1A Puppy Behavior 3 01-12-2016 10:26 AM
Should I intervene? tropicalsun General Puppy Stuff 4 03-17-2013 03:44 PM
Should I intervene in puppy play? Ziltoid Puppy Behavior 11 12-16-2012 07:10 PM
When to intervene? marlaina Feeding Our Puppy 2 12-01-2008 04:21 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome