All Pure genes GSD should be allowed in the Show Rings - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 05:27 PM
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Well, I guess if people don't care about any sort of standard for a breed than it doesn't matter. Though without them, we wouldn't have any breeds at all. I do have to ask the question though, if the standard doesn't matter, I assume that means people don't care if their GSD looks or acts even remotely like one? Or is it a case of we can pick and choose to ignore some parts of it because we find them silly or inconvenient? If the later, what parts are ok to ignore? The popular ones are always coat and color and size. But what about ears? How would people feel about floppy ears being accepted because some otherwise nice dogs have them? Maybe we should bring back curly, woolly coats too, since some dogs early on had that coat type.

No one knows exactly why certain colors were undesireable, since no where in the historical writings of the breed is it specified. Though no doubt part was simple personal preference on the part of those writing it. Neat thing when you create a breed is you get to take ownership of the rules that govern it whether you have a scientific reason for it or not and that means if you don't like a color you have every right to make unacceptable.

However it is highly suspected that a lot of the thinking behind disqualifying certain colors was a misunderstanding of genetics 100+ years ago. White may have been viewed as a indicator of albinism, and it's known health problems. There are many breeds where white, even non albino white, are genetically linked to health problems. And while we now know there are no health issues associated with the white masking gene in the GSD, back then they didn't. They knew sometimes white was linked to health problems and had no understanding of genes to know if the white GSD gene was any different, so for safety's sake let's not have whites. White was also frowned upon for a variety of reasons related to work. Not that the dogs couldn't work, but that the color itself was considered by many to be impractical and inconvenient compared to darker colors. So another reason to dislike white dogs.

Liver and blue themselves as colors are not disqualified. It is the fact that these dogs do not have black leather (nose, eye rims, etc...) The standard calls for black leather, and with blues and livers the same genes that dilute the black hair pigment to blue/liver also dilute the black skin pigment. So their leather is not black. As far as why the standard calls for black leather, and thus precludes blues and livers, part is probably because this exposed leather (particularly on the nose) is more prone to sunburn. Many whites also exhibit pigment problems on their nose, with the nose being pink or splotchy rather than black. While sunburned noses may seem like a silly reason today, it may not have to people back in the day whose dogs were outside working 24/7. Also again, much is probably a misunderstanding of genetics. Blue and liver in the GSD are not linked to health problems, but they are in many other breeds. The Doberman being one of those where dilute colors often bring about a host of skin problems. And of course, this is a breed and situation that the Germans writing the GSD standard would have been very familiar with. Not realizing that what is genetically linked to health issues in one breed may not be the case in another, and wanting to err on the side of caution, they may have disallowed dilutes for that reason.

As far as Fawn or Red or whatever people want to call them, there really is no such thing. They aren't actual colors. They are either black/tan or sable dogs who are severely lacking black pigment expression. They aren't disqualified at all, though they certainly would be faulted because that pesky standard calls for rich colors and markings and they don't have them. They wouldn't do well in a show, just like a black/cream or black/silver (both showing pigment paling of the tan which is also disfavored) wouldn't do well because of the desire for strong colors. But nothing would prohibit them from showing.


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post #12 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 05:32 PM
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As far as black, it is and always has been allowed. There is no moritoriam on "solid colors".


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post #13 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by APBTLove View Post
I want to know why, other than "It's the standard!" color is important.
Liver GSDs ARE German Shepherd dogs. Blue GSD's ARE German Shepherd Dogs.
We accept black but not white.

Why?
Because as sheep herders it was hard to distinguish them from the sheep!

AND also they would be hard to see in a snow covered field!
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post #14 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 06:53 PM
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I thought at one point the SV, very early on, registered white dogs. I heard they were rejected in the 30s or 40s perhaps. America did not remove them until the 60s? It could be wrong though.
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post #15 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 07:13 PM
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Because as sheep herders it was hard to distinguish them from the sheep!

AND also they would be hard to see in a snow covered field!
No. Neither of these is a reason white was disfavored, though the whole can't tell them from the sheep thing seems to be a myth that will never go away.

White is harder to camouflage. White dogs are more easily spotted (and thus easily shot) in most any situation except snow covered environment. Also, white is generally not as scary looking as a darker dog, taking away from the intimidation factor which is very important for a dog doing police, military, security or guard work.


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post #16 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 08:16 PM
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I've read that one of the reasons solid whites were disqualified was the incorrect assumption that allowing solid whites into a breeding program increased white spotting on marked dogs.
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post #17 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 08:20 PM
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I agree. All colors
And to heck with the standard, right? How do you feel about floppy ears?

And while we are at it - how about shy/fearful dogs? And dogs that bite the judge?

And dogs that limp?
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post #18 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 08:22 PM
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No. Neither of these is a reason white was disfavored, though the whole can't tell them from the sheep thing seems to be a myth that will never go away.

White is harder to camouflage. White dogs are more easily spotted (and thus easily shot) in most any situation except snow covered environment. Also, white is generally not as scary looking as a darker dog, taking away from the intimidation factor which is very important for a dog doing police, military, security or guard work.
Although your reasons are no doubt more accurate, I liked my reasons better! Heh! Heh!
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post #19 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 08:23 PM
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I believe I already said that floppy ears would drastically change the look of the breed. You drive me insane

Lauren

Sinister ~ black male GSD 3.11.09
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post #20 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-19-2010, 08:28 PM
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LOL codmaster!!! i say equal rights for all colours :-) we should do an ALI G dog advet saying "is it coz i is white" :-)
there is a big difference in a dog being white and having floppy ears and being fearfull!! what about the akita? by right they should not have a black mask!! so they made the american akita which can have a black mask, so they do change the standards when its suits!!
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