Tracking Question - Well sort of for sport but who knows - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #21 of 136 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 01:33 PM
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Slamming said: ".....
I am fascinated by 24 hour aged tracks and older. Do you leave the track layer at the end? Are these tracks run blind to the handler?....."

We reinsert the tracklayer when time to run the trail.. And yes, the vast majority of the time (unless working a technical drill) the trail is single blind, occasionally double blind to expose weaknesses...

Aged tracks used to scare me, but I've run enough of them in practice and deployment to know that scent/odor survives longer than we expect, quite often.. It will blow and move places, especially urban tracks due to the buildings, cars, etc, but it slides into the crevices, along buildings, finds vegetation and moisture.. Certainly heat and dryness play a role in how viable the scent trail is, but even a hit day, once it cools down can produce quite a bit of odor for a dog to trail.

Probably because of your job demands, aged trails more than a few hours seem unattainable.. Especially if going off fear scent or no scent article for discrimination purposes.. I admire greatly what you and LE in general are able to do with so little odor information for the dog or confusing odor information).. As SAR, we train for what we get called out on, and that quite often is minimum 24hr old or more..

I love your open mind and desire to learn nuances of odor Slamdunc.. I have found alot of LE in my area, just assume anything over 2hrs aged is impossible to trail.. I find myself spending hours most days reading, practicing and observing what odor does and how dogs react to it.. I think I'm addicted to learning scent behavior and the dogs abilities, lol..
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post #22 of 136 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 01:34 PM
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Sorry Slamdunc .. Phone changed your user name to slamming without my consent!!
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post #23 of 136 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 01:41 PM
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Your way of extending the track/trail and overall idea of the end result outways the 'how' is pretty much how I see it. I've done the extension tracks with runaways and it really reinvigorates a dog who may be flagging a bit due to the intense focus it takes to work odor, especially aged odor.. I will often have my subjects lay a trail, let it age, then, while I'm running it they start laying a hot track from the end spot of the aged trail.. When the dog gets to the hot track, no matter how long the trail was, they perk up and run like a fresh dog and the rewards are that much sweeter....

During training, we try to keep the dog trailing /tracking as much as possible so the dog doesn't just air scent to the subject aborting the trail, however, winds shift and sometimes that happens.. Bottom line, if a person is lost, they don't want you running their track, they want to be found NOW, lol.. So I am of the opinion the dog knows where the odor is and how best to use it to our purpose and find the person as fast as possible, however that may be (tracking, air or trailing blown odor)..
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post #24 of 136 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamdunc View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu0x_bwbTcY



I have a bunch of videos on hard surface tracking on youtube. It is how we start all of our patrol dogs in the K9 school.
Why do track the dog on a correction collar, to slow him down?
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post #25 of 136 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 01:58 PM
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Nancy J said: Well, honestly our dogs get a bite too. Just a toy! And she likes to lick everyone. And loves kids and has worked with Autism and Downs subjects too.

Lol! That is so true! Just a different type of bite for different reasons haha

I have found proximity alerts very important too, although for very different reasons.. My life isn't at risk, as yours is if tracking a felon.. But proximity alerts allow us as SAR, to be even more alert and look for other clues of the person's whereabouts, as well as possibly prep for the find.
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post #26 of 136 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 02:11 PM
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@Slamdunc Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when you eliminate the water and lay a concrete track, are you scuffing the way you do for beginners in IPO?
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post #27 of 136 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 02:15 PM
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Why do track the dog on a correction collar, to slow him down?
In training I will use the prong collar to slow him down, but my dogs can do virtually anything on that collar. I have done actual street tracks on a prong collar as well. There are times when I want that extra control. Keep in mind that Boru is trained to "find and bite." I need to be very careful tracking through shopping centers, neighborhoods and the areas we work to not have an unintentional bite. I also need to have control in case a subject complies and gives up.

Prong collars used correctly are not the terrible device that some people seem to make them out to be. I can track, do building searches, obedience and even bite work on a prong. It's not a big deal to the dog at all. Depending on the type of track and area, I may use a harness, flat collar or tactical ballistic vest that functions as a harness as well.
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post #28 of 136 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 02:23 PM
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@Slamdunc Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when you eliminate the water and lay a concrete track, are you scuffing the way you do for beginners in IPO?
Not a stupid question at all.

No, I don't scuff at all. When we transition to grass in the training, we do not scuff either. I just walk normally. Dogs noses are so good that scuffing is really not necessary. The only thing I may do, if I want to help the dog on a track is occasionally touch the asphalt or concrete. I may do this when crossing busy streets, like 4 lane roads. Odor is like "wet paint" and putting a palm on the street leaves odor for the dog. We will also carry a water bottle and occasionally spit some water on the track. That is about all that we do.

We use a GPS app on our phones, like Motion GPX or some jogging app to record our tracks. The track layer will record the track and get a satellite image of the route and text it to the person going along on the track with the dog and handler. In the event the handler makes a mistake we can offer some guidance. We can then compare the actual track to the route the dog and handler went.

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post #29 of 136 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 02:57 PM
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I don't mean to sidetrack the thread, but I appreciate the way you guys detail the training aspect of these things. Thanks.
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post #30 of 136 (permalink) Old 05-26-2017, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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The typical pattern for us is that after the person goes missing, family and friends institute their own search and when they start getting frantic, they call the sheriff. The sheriff goes out, runs a dog and if they come up empty they call us. We had one in the past year that turned out ok but I bet a good urban dog may have located him or at least helped us focus our resources.

If a trailing dog has a good direction of travel we will jump skip with air scent dogs ahead of the trailing dog but if we have a good LKP the trailing dog always gets first stab at it.

I know from HRD it is definitely important to have training single blind as soon as the handler knows the dog is on its game -- then double blind down the road. The only time I set a problem for Beau is when I want to work on something. Like a problem or speed drills. Right now he is doing this thing where he will run to the source and then "shop around" and I thought he was working the fringe to be sure. Had an MT tell me, nope he does not want to get put up and is goofing off. He would always work his way back to the source and indicate. So now I am doing speed drills and if he hits source and does not indicate, he just gets put up for awhile. They are not stupid animals
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