Full Body Cadaver Work (SAR) - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-10-2016, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Full Body Cadaver Work (SAR)

For those of you who may have done this before, any recommendations of what to work on and how to build from basics up?

I'm going to a workshop next weekend. Tygo has worked on cadaver tissue (mostly blood and placenta) so this will be new to us with full bodies.

thanks.

Karin
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-10-2016, 02:55 PM
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Texas or WCU or somewhere else and how far along is your training?

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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-10-2016, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Nancy.

We are a mission ready team in area since February. Only one real search since then. Regularly train on cadaver tissue and I often have him training on small sources with the HRD dogs. He is even alerting on shallow buried sources. As part of our certification in CA with CARDA we have a preliminary test, 20 acres, 1 hour, 1 live find one "large source" cadaver. Most of the tissue is placenta. He has been on a bit of cerebra-spinal fluid, blood, breast reduction tissue (don't ask!) some bones and has done okay on these.

The way I understand this, there will b 7 to 9 scenarios to work. I just wondered how I should approach this as a new person to this type of training.

Thank you.

Karin
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-10-2016, 10:59 PM
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The test includes a live victim and HR?

Are you going to train on a whole corpse?

Sorry, maybe I am being dense. Basahhhh. Not that that would be off for me.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-10-2016, 11:16 PM
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If this is a private set up? Then the best way would be to let him work it like a normal problem and gauge his response. You will find it different than on training aids. Some are cagey, others run right up to it. Normally the body is "protected" in some sort of fencing or you may be asked to just introduce him to it on lead.

Beau has pretty consistently in the real world (not training) done an untrained recall coming back very excited and it is the only time he has taken off from me like a rocket to get to something. But those instances have been whole bodies, less than 2 days deceased so that is different than anything you will get in a training situation.

So much for the final trained response but it is consistent and with him nearly 5, we have only had a handful or real world opportunities that are not staged (like at university body farms)

Grim did that as well. In training with bodies behind fences they would work to the fence then alert someplace downhill from the body close to it..

I rejected an offer of breast reduction tissue because they set it all in a preservative as they do histology on it. I did get the drainage fluid that was later collected though.

Confused about the test as well. Is it two separate tests? We just do NAPWDA - Beau is cadaver only. Tilly will be live find only but exposed to cadaver just to see what she does.

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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 08:12 AM
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Excellent that you are going through a formally recognized certification. So many groups/people/trainers claim SAR, but do not train, do not log training, do not certify and do not get called out. Used as a marketing tool. The written tests are fairly basic.


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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
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I think I confused everyone. The 20 AC test was one of three tests (and two years of training) to get certified in CA with CARDA. BTW Smithie, we have some written sign offs (navigation etc) but all our certification tests are in the field (20 AC, 40 AC and 110AC with varied scenarios). I mentioned the 20 AC just to indicate training on HR. Pretty standard that your first dog takes two years of weekly training to get to certification.

This is a separate training not a cert. I'll be in San Luis Obispo at the National Guard facility. I think this training was originally for fire investigators but now for one day it is offered to certified SAR dogs. I actually do not know if the bodies will be fenced individually. I know the training area is secured completely. I'll check on the fence thing.

Thx.

Karin
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 09:43 AM
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This is really cool Dutch! My dogs have been working on teeth, placenta and blood from the abdomen.. The team has other sources.. I haven't worked mine on them yet as their alerts hadn't been 100%...we don't have a body farm close, although some team members have gone to CA for this purpose.. Be sure to keep us posted on how it goes ...... As to certs, our state has 13week (once a week 4hrs a day) core competency requirements... Written tests as well as in field tests... Then, the particular teams have their own requirements and Certifications.. Right now they are all outside organizations but they are trying to get some state wide standards to try and keep expenses down...
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 11:07 AM
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I would love to get to the facility in Texas as I have heard the set up is better than WCU. But I have heard the instruction is better at WCU and they have a new area set up there. I did get go go privately for a study they were doing and work one fenced hide from the Urban Death project.

Even so, it seems the "real thing" is by far the best. WCU fence is so full of odors from the many bodies that have decomposed there it is not 'real'. But it is of course hard to get access because once one is found on a search, the area is secured.

NAPDWA does not require large sources for its tests though our buried was whole placentas two feet down. You really have to drive great distances sometimes to have a good training opportunity..

OTOH we have had real world finds of drowning victims on dogs trained only with small amounts. And the once you are good at reading the dog in odor you will know to really detail.

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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 01:47 PM
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Jocoyn said : OTOH we have had real world finds of drowning victims on dogs trained only with small amounts. And the once you are good at reading the dog in odor you will know to really detail.


I think that is key right there! Reading the dog, especially if it is trace amounts or wind conditions cause the dog to hold off on an alert... My girl wags her tail (yuck.. At least she doesn't eat or roll in it, lol) so I know she has found source... Her alerts are about 85%-90% of the time, so we need work.. My boy is harder to read, he has a curly tail and is more easily distracted some days...
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