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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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HRD Question

Would you use a dog that was briefly started on Narcotics and has already a down&stare indication on HRD?
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 08:53 PM
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Was the indication for the narcotics?

Depending on the dog, yeah not much chance if it being an issue. But I would probably use a different indication.


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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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They used the German "Such" for Narcotics and yes, the down&stare was for Narcotics.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 09:18 PM
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I would train using a different word and a different indication.

Jocoyn, may have better insight into legalities and such. But I don't think it's an issue.


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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 09:32 PM
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To me it is no so much on the indication but the possible confusion in the dog.. because if he gets in a situation working a negative area for a longer amount of time (as most cadaver searches are) and hits on drugs after not finding HR - he may false alert to get his toy because he will still remember the narcotics.

Seeing as how we have searched for bodies in areas where we have seen needles on the ground.......and crime victims are often not dumped in the nicest places, it is a real possibility drugs (roaches, meth stuff, needles, etc.) may be present where a body would be found.

You would need to set up plenty of training problems WITH the full spectrum of narcotics to which he was exposed present to show the dog completely ignores them. They need to be completely extinguished and that is tough because it was the first thing he was imprinted on.

Which means you should be training with someone with a DEA license setting up distracters for you so you can document no response to drugs in the training logs.

I would ask David Frost or Ladylaw (Renee Utley) directly because both of them are LE and have been in court plenty of times. Most of my few finds have all been drowning victims and it is pretty straightforward there so I have never gone to court.

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 09:36 PM
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I was told that if you train in cadaver that your dog can't be trained to find anything else-is that not true? What about if he is trained in Nose Work- could you do HRD as well?
Sorry to hijack, but didn't think it warranted a new thread.

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 09:38 PM
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Thanks Jocoyn. I don't do HRD, but knew you would have good input. I figured changing the indication may work, so the two were different and if he indicated on narcotics it would easily distinguished.




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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I don't think that is going to happen. I can try and see if we have anyone in the Area that has a DEA license or possibly with some K9 Handlers. But I highly doubt it's going to happen.

I am going to wait for their responses too but it might be best to keep her live find.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 10:01 PM
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Some folks claim it can be done. I just want to be able to say "my dog has only been trained on the odor of human remains" and then expound on what that means and not have to muddle through all the explanations about a dog doing multi-tasking on different detection odors. I have not seen a definitive answer on nosework since those are odors unlikely to be encountered naturally (drugs pretty much being everywhere)

I would still try to extinguish it, but a live find dog is a whole lot less likely to have to explain something in court. We train frequently with the police and our HR hides are set in the same building as their narcotoics hides when we do building searches.

So we each have to see the dogs ignore the other odors though sometimes you might have an idea based on the body language of the dog.....they are not going to completely ignore the other odors just not work them to source and indicate.

So if you can train with the police and explain the situation that is good.

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-21-2013, 10:20 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah.

I talked to a friend who is on the team I'm going to join. I think it is best to stick with live find for now and get her operational within a year. I'm working MaDeuce on HRD, she is amazing absolutely amazing. Luckily I've got a lot of source I can work with which was provided by that team. I'm going to wait with my application until after the knee surgery. Indra is going to be the one I'm joining with while working Ma and Nala on the side.

What I do like is that that team is highly professional. It's been my absolute favorite team from the beginning and they not only certify in NYSFEDSAR but also in NAPWDA, so that is going to be a completely different ball game. They have years upon years upon years of experience in HRD.
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