Changing the Indication - yes or no? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-04-2011, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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Changing the Indication - yes or no?

We've had an awesome training day today.

However, Indra completely knocked me over. I should have never used the jump as an indication. She came flying back and jumped into me with so much power that I fell over and those who know me, know that it's not easy to knock me over.

We were thinking of changing the indication to a sit or maybe even a bringsel on my belt but I am worried that it'll screw everything up. A teammate tried changing his indication and worked on that for a year before he went back to the old one and it pretty much screwed with the dog.

Would you change it or stick with it and try to get her to a point where she actually doesn't jump into me as hard as she does now.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-04-2011, 02:57 PM
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this is coming from a totally inexperienced person but i think MAYBE if you teach her the indication at home first for other things, maybe you could incorporate it in the search training slowly so as not to confuse her. OR you could do like we did with Riley. he's allowed to jump when he's excited about doing something but he's not allowed to TOUCH us. He can jump straight up and down in front of us but NO touching us without permission. We taught him that because he was so excitable about fetch he was causing bruises on us. Basically you can keep the jump indicator but also teach her no touch. When she jumps and paws you, step back and say no touch but encourage her to still jump. Nothing like a rabbit dog bouncing up and down in front of you can be missed. I hope that makes sense. It did in my head. lol. Just treat and praise when she jumps but dont touch or however you reward.

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-05-2011, 05:27 AM
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I would be more inclined to not change it but maybe try to tone it down a little. Having a training indication that strong is good for when you have been out searching for four hours and the dog is tired and may not offer something quite as strong.

Changing them around can really confuse the dogs and I always here the mantra that a dog under stress will return to its foundation training.

Nancy



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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-05-2011, 12:58 PM
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I agree with Nancy. Dogs tend to, under stress, revert back to what they learnt first. Probably you will spend months teching a new indication and when you relly need it, you will get the old one, or worse, a mix of both. Easier and quicker to work on what you have than create something from zero, without guaranties that the new indication will not bring its own problems and shortcuts.

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-05-2011, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
I would be more inclined to not change it but maybe try to tone it down a little. Having a training indication that strong is good for when you have been out searching for four hours and the dog is tired and may not offer something quite as strong.

Changing them around can really confuse the dogs and I always here the mantra that a dog under stress will return to its foundation training.

I agree. That is why we dont change aggressive alert dogs to passive. They will revert back. Wastes time and confuses the dog
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-05-2011, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
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Allright, it's what I thought already. It would be a shame if we screwed her up just because we change the indication.

Thanks everybody.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-08-2011, 10:57 PM
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You can change a jump on you to a sit and bark pretty easily--I watched Bill Dotson help a client change a dog over. It may still revert to bouncing off you, but I bet you'd get the bark too.

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-09-2011, 09:46 AM
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Most wilderness folks I know do not like the sit because it takes them out of a fluid motion and can break their chain of thought...........I certainly know Bill has LEAGUES and LEAGUES more experience than do I, but I would want it direct from him with any qualifiers.

I have seen several dogs messed up though by having handlers muck with the indication.

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-09-2011, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Bill said it wouldn't be to late to change it, however I shouldn't do anything but indication in that time. The thing is, I don't feel experienced and good enough to do it on my own and we have one dog on the team that was messed up because they tried to change the indication.

I guess I just have to take it as "lesson learned" and do it better with the next dog.

I took Yukon out of Cadaver Dog because we just don't have the Resources. Well, I have one Placenta but I just want to get more experience and train at least one certified Air Scent Dog before I go the Cadaver Route. I am working him in Air Scent (without having certification on my mind just for the experience). With him I am actually using the sit and it works very well. It's pretty intense. It does break the motion but he's literally coming at me like a reining horse that's doing the stop. I let him sit for at least 10 seconds before I do the "show me".

The only thing with the sit is that you really have to know when the dogs are indicating or sitting down. Bill told us stories where people were looking at the map, the dog came, indicated (sat in front of them) and they said "Go back to work."
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-09-2011, 10:50 AM
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I would be interested in hearing how the sit works on a multiple refind situation.

That sounds like an excellent plan. Working an air scent dog for awhile will give you some insight on scent theory (internalizing it without having to think) then you can add the other dimensions of below ground and underwater to your thought processes. A lot of folks train live find dogs on water search because most water calls are very fresh drownings.

Sent you a PM too.

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