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Competition heeling

5K views 48 replies 11 participants last post by  Jax08 
#1 ·
Is touchpad work really necessary?


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#7 ·
As someone is not a huge fan of the modern constant dead locked eyeball stare style heel while walking 50 paces and making turns (frequent eye contact and handler attentiveness I can dig, but not eyeballs glued to me right off a cliff. I'd rather see a dog glancing frequently at his handler but also paying attention to his surroundings. But that is just me and my stubbornness about Situational Awareness) but does it because I want to play too, I can tell you with 100 % certainty using a bowl with one dog and not with another has made a noticeable difference lol. The one I didn't use any of that stuff with has zero rear end awareness with, is big, and teaching him rear end awareness once he was big and habits were set in was very difficult. Even know that he knows what I mean, it looks forced. Because it is.

The 2nd dog, I started him on a bowl, then stopped. So he is just a little better than the big one. But I do see a difference for sure. Had I stuck with it he would be much better right now. Looks like I am going down the same path though. So yeah..I recommend using the bowl and sticking with it lol.
 
#8 ·
As someone is not a huge fan of the modern constant dead locked eyeball stare style heel while walking 50 paces and making turns (frequent eye contact and handler attentiveness I can dig, but not eyeballs glued to me right off a cliff. I'd rather see a dog glancing frequently at his handler but also paying attention to his surroundings. But that is just me and my stubbornness about Situational Awareness) but does it because I want to play too, I can tell you with 100 % certainty using a bowl with one dog and not with another has made a noticeable difference lol. The one I didn't use any of that stuff with has zero rear end awareness with, is big, and teaching him rear end awareness once he was big and habits were set in was very difficult. Even know that he knows what I mean, it looks forced. Because it is.



The 2nd dog, I started him on a bowl, then stopped. So he is just a little better than the big one. But I do see a difference for sure. Had I stuck with it he would be much better right now. Looks like I am going down the same path though. So yeah..I recommend using the bowl and sticking with it lol.


I also tend not to be a huge fan of the focus in the heel. It’s not practical. Looks nice in competition though. I wish it wasn’t required. I don’t think it will be in American schutzhund....I’ll have to check it out. I kinda feel my dog is supposed to be aware of the surroundings


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#9 ·
Well, let me expand on that a little. I was a little too hasty and broad brushed in expressing my opinion. School bus was coming lol I absolutely see the value in bonding enough and earning enough trust that your dog WOULD blindly put his whole self into your hands. And having a dog that would do that for you through a wall of fire is also invaluable. I'd like to see it implemented more sporadically rather than a constant neck crane. Like, through distractions. I think it is a great exercise to demonstrate when a decoy is present, or through a group. I guess what I mean is I would like to see it turn on and off, not be constant.
 
#12 ·
Yes, I’m aware. And oh that’s cool! Iron is in my dogs pedigree. And I I read in the rule book that “Any style of heeling is acceptable”. So I’m not sure. I guess that’s vague. Either way, As I said I’m going to start working on it. Was able to get the 2 front paws on the bowl yesterday...but that’s it. Nothing as far as turning. She wasn’t having it. I guess I should
Just continue to try to lure? Thanks for all the knowledge Jax. I do appreciate the responses.


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#14 ·
"Attention heeling can allow you to move from one position through distractions of citizens yelling and creating disturbances. Attention heeling can also allow you to keep your dog calm and be able to deploy him for a track without becoming agitated by these distractions and interrupting his ability to concentrate on a track, for example. Each tool takes time to develop, but what you have in the end are more options for successful deployments."
from an article by Jerry Bradshaw and Sean Siggins
So there is a tactical advantage to attention/focused heeling. I think many people don't train for it because it is very difficult, has to be done correctly, and takes a lot of time and repetition. You also have to have a dog with sufficient drive or you are spitting in the wind. That doesn't mean extreme prey drive, but rather sufficient.
 
#18 ·
No, it doesn't need to be done. There are other ways to teach rear end awareness. It does have its purpose, though, and is an easy way for most people to do this.

A dog watching you in heeling shows the bond and relationship with the handler. It can also be created through artificial means. I don't care for the head up the arm pit look that is too often created in training and not developed through training and relationship. It is NOT needed for high points, but the dog giving your focus is. In dogs with high pack drive this is very easy to get. Dogs with less pack drive it can be more difficult, but still possible.

This is competition and obedience. It has nothing to do with the dog being unaware of its surroundings or wanting the dog to look around. You are either willing to put the time in to develop that relationship with your dog or you are not.


These dogs were trained with food, toy and a little pinch to keep the forward momentum controlled. No force to make them look at me. No sticks to get the heads up. NO ball or toy under the arm (bites there hurt!). Deja was a bit flashier than Vala due to her structure.
 

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#20 ·
This is competition and obedience. It has nothing to do with the dog being unaware of its surroundings or wanting the dog to look around. You are either willing to put the time in to develop that relationship with your dog or you are not.
I was referring to how an attentive heel has tactical advantages in police dogs and it is not just a sport thing.
 
#22 ·
Competition heeling itself has literally nothing to do with its application to situational awareness, so I do not think that the discussion regarding how it applies to "real life" is relevant.

That being said, there is nothing in competition heeling that is "absolutely necessary". I personally do use perch work to build rear end awareness, and as a starting point in my heeling foundation, but there are a million ways to skin a cat.


 
#25 ·
Competition heeling itself has literally nothing to do with its application to situational awareness, so I do not think that the discussion regarding how it applies to "real life" is relevant.

I am calling the behavior attentive/focused heeling. In the context of trialing it is competition heeling and does not have anything to do with situational awareness. In the context of a police dog in certain situations, it has everything to do with situational awareness.
 
#24 ·
In my experience, when the ball or food (reward line) goes away, dogs will find their own level of comfort. I teach head up, push off the rear, to help them stay straight and not forge. But when the ball goes away, both of my dogs drop and turn their heads slightly to look at me.
 
#42 ·
Jax8,
The third video is almost identical to how I taught my current dog heeling. Hand positioning with the food is very correct, the pup has learned to push into the hand/food, spins for engagement and to help reset the dog back into heeling, backward walking/heeling for in motion exercises, etc. The only difference for me was I taught the dog to come to a static heel while facing me doing a service/flip finish first. I also always used a leash and used opposition reflex to teach the service finish and used the prong until recently to be able to correct any head dropping. I also would do some one or two steps of heeling and stop and not just heel for a number of paces. Now I just use the e-collar and no leash to maintain precision. There are so many little things that people can do wrong that prevents the dog from heeling correctly.
 
#44 ·
Notice in the video where the handler is holding her hand with the food. It is about where the outside seam of a pair of pants would be and at the right height , which is correct and teaches the dog the correct position for his head and chest. You can also tell she worked on teaching the pup to push into the food and then up and into the food. This is why you need a pup with good food drive and later, good prey drive.
 
#49 ·
"very skilled decoy to bring your dog to his genetic potential"

Amen to this. Not a decoy that works one system and can only work one type of dog. But a decoy that works the dog in front of them to bring out their genetic potential.

And foundation is everything. From obedience to tracking to protection. You can't unteach something.
 
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