Suggestions for when dog picks it’s head up off the track? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
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Suggestions for when dog picks it’s head up off the track?

How do you correct when a dog does not have deep nose contact or even looks up?
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 03:50 PM
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Whether the dog gets a correction or not depends what the dog knows. At IPO1 level, my dog got more food, more articles and more help.

Exactly what experience does your dog have? Who do you train with? What methods did you use to teach your dog? And does your dog have natural hunt drive?




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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 03:52 PM
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I would work more on tracking and nose contact with positive reinforcement rather than punishment until your dog learns tracking better. It sounds like you are still teaching basics.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 04:19 PM
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I don't correct it. If he gets legit distracted I might say leave it or find it....to encourage him to get back to work. But that is very rare. My dog loves to track and works hard at it.

I have used no corrections training tracking except a very rare leave it
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 04:42 PM
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Given your other post on your dog lacking food drive, my only advice is contact a club and get a trainer. I would not even attempt to describe out to use force methods over the internet. You need a hands on trainer, which it doesn't sound like you've ever had from your first post on how to find clubs and trials.



Second, IPO tracking is an obedience exercise. It's footstep to footstep. You have to TEACH the tracking before you can correct. You have to teach line pressure and learn how to communicate with your dog 33' out at the end of the line. Do you need corrections? Yes, at some point you will. However, you have to be very very careful about correcting. To much pressure and your dog will either lie on the track to avoid the correction or will just stop tracking.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Jax08 View Post
Second, IPO tracking is an obedience exercise. It's footstep to footstep. You have to TEACH the tracking before you can correct. You have to teach line pressure and learn how to communicate with your dog 33' out at the end of the line. Do you need corrections? Yes, at some point you will. However, you have to be very very careful about correcting. To much pressure and your dog will either lie on the track to avoid the correction or will just stop tracking.
Not to derail the thread, but I do have a serious question @Jax08. When you get down to basics, isn't what you've described applicable to ALL training? One has to teach something before one can correct the performance. Or, so I always thought. Am I missing something specific to IPO which, admittedly, I don't do?

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 08:41 PM
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Given your other post on your dog lacking food drive, my only advice is contact a club and get a trainer. I would not even attempt to describe out to use force methods over the internet. You need a hands on trainer, which it doesn't sound like you've ever had from your first post on how to find clubs and trials.

Second, IPO tracking is an obedience exercise. It's footstep to footstep. You have to TEACH the tracking before you can correct. You have to teach line pressure and learn how to communicate with your dog 33' out at the end of the line. Do you need corrections? Yes, at some point you will. However, you have to be very very careful about correcting. To much pressure and your dog will either lie on the track to avoid the correction or will just stop tracking.
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Not to derail the thread, but I do have a serious question @Jax08. When you get down to basics, isn't what you've described applicable to ALL training? One has to teach something before one can correct the performance. Or, so I always thought. Am I missing something specific to IPO which, admittedly, I don't do?

Aly
My answers were specific to IPO tracking. It's very much obedience. Very precise, no air scenting, footstep to footstep. For tracking, and I can only speak to IPO, You need to be able to communicate to your dog down a 33' length. You don't train at that length but they need to understand what a light pop on the collar means. If you use electric, they need to understand that LIGHT stim means put your head back down. Put it down..there is food there. You have to be extra careful correcting a dog in tracking. Dog will "lie" on the track. they will make corners, keep going straight, do their own thing and never change behavior because they've learned if they keep their head down, they don't get in trouble.

Your question is if what I said was relevant to all training? Yes and no. Yes, you have to teach your dog the right behavior. You need to make sure they understand the behavior. Then if they choose to do something other than tht behavior, a correction is fair.

No, in that a correction on the track can really, REALLY, hose your dog. a dog can't lie in obedience. They are right their with you. A dog 33' out from you is on his own. He has to make the decisions. Crane operators describe their job as 50 minutes of boredom and 10 minutes of sheer terror. I would describe tracking in a similar way. It's hours and hours and hours of training and 10 minutes of sheer terror that only the dog can control.

If you do a harsh correction, or an unfair one on the track, it could be bad. If you do an unfair correction in obedience, it's easier to bring them back because their drive is different.

So...Yes and No. But that's just my opinion.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-07-2018, 01:16 PM
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Your question is if what I said was relevant to all training? Yes and no. Yes, you have to teach your dog the right behavior. You need to make sure they understand the behavior. Then if they choose to do something other than tht behavior, a correction is fair.

No, in that a correction on the track can really, REALLY, hose your dog. a dog can't lie in obedience. They are right their with you. A dog 33' out from you is on his own. He has to make the decisions. Crane operators describe their job as 50 minutes of boredom and 10 minutes of sheer terror. I would describe tracking in a similar way. It's hours and hours and hours of training and 10 minutes of sheer terror that only the dog can control.
Ahhhhhh. Context, dynamics and communication subtleties (in my language system). I get it!

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So...Yes and No. But that's just my opinion.
Well, I asked for your opinion and I got a very clear explanation of how the (training and communication) dynamics were different in that context. I learned something and enjoyed it too.

Thank You!



Aly

ETA. Just realized how much depends on your (the handler's) ability to accurately and precisely 'read' your dog. Most impressive. Thanks again.
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Last edited by Aly; 08-07-2018 at 01:20 PM. Reason: add'l insights...
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