Opinions/experience with pitbulls in IPO? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 07:20 AM Thread Starter
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Opinions/experience with pitbulls in IPO?

I'm not talking about these giant bully mutts you see labeled as pitbulls in every shelter across the country. I'm talking about REALY adba APBT.

Won't be ready for my next sport dog for another year or two, however I've always loved pit bulls and recently I found a breeder that has really intrigued me. I've only ever owned male dogs so knew my next dog would be female regardless, especially since I think they can be fun little spitfires. I love their dogs. The look, the build. ALL are worked and shown. ADBA conformation, weight pull, wall climbs, agility, hunting, iron dog competitions, bite sports (although from their videos I don't know how much they're ACTUALLY worked in the sport or just put on sleeves and suits). And I LOVE chocolate pits, but don't feel like they're too common.

Does anyone have any experience or opinions on pit bulls in the sport? The one person I've talked to (and I dont know how much experience he actually has working them) says they can be hard to train for it, especially the bitework portion - their outs can be non-existant. I can see that with the breed. On the other hand, I think not outing is a common problem in the sport regardless, especially with so many people eager to work such young puppies on sleeves and suits well before they have any solid foundation work.

My favorite part of the sport is the obedience, and I would think a little female could excel at that.

Here is the breeder, BTW.

Chocolate Red Nose Working American Pit Bull Terriers

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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 08:06 AM
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There was just a thread very similar to this...pits as PPDs I think. Try searching that, it probably covers what you are asking
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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 08:59 AM
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OP, you've been a forum member for a while, so maybe I'm preaching to the choir by saying this but be prepared for some, if not a lot, of negative feedback regarding training and even owning a pitbull. From the way some on here have opined on this breed, you'd think they're terrorist attacks waiting to happen.

IMHO, I think a well-bred, properly-raised pitbull can be successfully trained and employed in a lot of different venues/activities. I think the 2 factors, in bold, are key as they are for most dogs. I share your reservations about IPO-style bite work, since many pitbulls are extremely stubborn-minded and the out may not be as immediate as what is expected for that sport. They might be okay at other protection sports, but you'll have to ask around on that as using that breed for those activities is uncharted territory for me.

I know nothing about the breeder whom you referenced, so I can't say anything good or bad about him. I will say that it is extremely important to make sure the breeder is ethical. A lot of pitbull breeders sell their dogs to people who dog-fight; and for some, dog-fighting is relied upon to ensure the 'gameness' of their dogs. If he is advertising these dogs as 'working dogs' I would delve into what 'working' activities he is actually training his dogs for.
What activities does the breeder himself actually train in?
Who has bought his dogs previously and how are they training them?

If you are seriously considering this breeder, I would definitely reach out to prior customers of his and ask questions. Like I said, I don't see any issue for training a pitbull for a wide variety of activities, so long as the dog itself is of a sound mind and healthy. I have heard that there is some uncertainty with modern pitbull breeders: not all breeders are honest about the genetics behind their breedings (there are a lot of pitbull mixes out there being advertised as pure bloods); some breed for conformation or looks to detriment of other, functional pursuits; some still use dog-fighting to produce 'game' dogs. You just want to do some research and make sure that this breeder doesn't fall within any of those categories.

Last edited by Dalko43; 11-28-2016 at 09:05 AM.
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 09:10 AM
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Just a mere week ago.

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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 09:49 AM
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I have removed a few posts. This thread will NOT turn into another childish back and forth argument. If you have nothing to add to the OP's question than keep your opinion to yourself. ADMIN
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 09:53 AM
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There have been a few APBT in the sport over the years, but they are fairly rare. Even those that are suitable often don't belong to clubs where the helpers know how to work them. I would find a breeder that has experience with working APBT in IPO, since selection of a good prospect will be paramount (even more so than a GSD or Mali), and then hope to find a club that will work with you.
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 09:55 AM
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I don't think you'll find a pit has the same excitement for IPO. You also wouldn't want a dog that isn't as clear headed in drive. Pits were genetically bred to get into drive and stay in drive no matter what to the finish. That's why breaker bars are needed.
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudpump View Post
I don't think you'll find a pit has the same excitement for IPO. You also wouldn't want a dog that isn't as clear headed in drive. Pits were genetically bred to get into drive and stay in drive no matter what to the finish. That's why breaker bars are needed.
A pitbull that would work well in IPO...maybe not, or at least it would be hard to find a decent one.
I view "clear headed" as a relative term...the average pitbull may not have that trait to the same degree as a well-bred GSD, but there are enough examples of people working pitbulls in other protection sports to indicate that there are some pitbulls who are "clear headed" enough for that type of training.
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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 10:49 AM
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So.. I am one of this forum's unashamed dirty rotten pit bull lovers... And I do have real time experience with gamebred dogs...

My opinion is that Pit Bulls are not appropriate for IPO or other bitework. 'Man aggression' is a disqualification according to the ADBA standard. A well bred pit, should not possess qualitites such as civilness and suspicion needed for bite work. And IMHO their prey drive should never be allowed to be directed towards a person - owning a pit bull comes with baggage and politics whether you like it or not and you must always keep that in mind, you owe it to every other pit bull fancier on the planet.

I do know people who have worked their pits in bite sports. And yes, outs can be problematic. Also problematic is actually getting the dogs to engage the helper. I don't see the same joy in pits that do bite work as I do in the dogs actually bred for it. How into IPO would you want to go anyways? Have you ever watched any pit bulls in action? We have some american bull dogs and pits in my local IPO club... They can cause a lot of frustration The last event I attended, 2 dogs broke the long down - both bully types. Another just trotted off in the middle of his routine. Yes I know that can happen with any dog.. it just seems to be more prevalent in that type around here! Now, don't get me wrong - I loved my pitties, and they loved me - BUT this is not a breed that has an innate desire to work as a partner with their person. They retain the independence of terriers. So the question is how much personal enjoyment will you get with working a dog like that?

I, myself, don't. I loved my pits companionship. They were awesome pets for me (though they do require more management precautions) but I always kept a herding breed around to fulfill my competitive nature and love of dog sports. I did do some weight pulls with the pits, but could never keep up with the conditioning regimine to do well. Fun though.

I would be very very leary of any breeder who works their breeding stock in bitework venues. Breeding against the standard is always a red flag in any breed...Also, I briefly checked out your breeder's page. Color me unimpressed. Do your due diligence and really scour through the pedigrees, I am seeing a lot of line breeding, far past what most breeders would personally find acceptable. I no longer have a subscription for online-pedigrees as I am out of the pit bull game so to speak and don't have much of an opinion on the dogs close up, but would recommend joining there and asking around before putting a deposit down...
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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 11:17 AM
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Another thing to keep in mind is if you are working your pit in drive, you need to assume that it WILL redirect to any dog near by. What they really WANT to be doing when they get revved up is latch onto another dog.

Lots of people train competition obedience in drive, If you choose to do so, ALWAYS carry a muzzle with you for when you enter and leave the performance area.

Pit Bulls are ZERO MISTAKE dogs.
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