Pulling back vs. Torquing the sleeve- revisited - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Pulling back vs. Torquing the sleeve- revisited

I am re reading this post. Am I correct in saying as long as the dog has a full calm bite, torquing is Ok?

The reason I ask, is that , some in my club are saying to only encourage the pulling back and to discourage the torquing in young dogs.

Last edited by gsdluvr; 07-09-2016 at 03:30 PM. Reason: addition
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 03:36 PM
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It's a points issue. If the dog is pulling back, he is most likely not going to regrip and lose points. When they start "torquing" and fighting the helper, which IMO they actually should be doing, they lose points if they regrip or get chewy on the sleeve.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 03:44 PM
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I just want to clarify that re-gripping and being chewy are very different. In the suit sports, they want to see a dog fighting and digging in for more. In the sleeve sports, they don't.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 03:51 PM
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Yes, they are very different. The issue is when the dog regrips and the judge interprets it as chewy. So pulling is the safer option.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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My dog is like a crab. She sometimes torques with a full bite and doesn't re grip. So no points lost?
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mycobraracr View Post
I just want to clarify that re-gripping and being chewy are very different. In the suit sports, they want to see a dog fighting and digging in for more. In the sleeve sports, they don't.
On a sleeve, what about locking up with a dog that pushes in and torques around?
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 05:00 PM
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My dog is like a crab. She sometimes torques with a full bite and doesn't re grip. So no points lost?
If the bite is full and deep, there is no reason to re-grip.
As far as locking up....if the helper can hold the sleeve still then the out command should be coming(or *wince* auto-out) and the dog should be ready for that transition.
Karlo is very powerful and helpers do have a hard time locking up, so he will continue to fight as long as he is 'controlling' the sleeve. I have had to practice active outs with him, just in case we trial with a helper that cannot lock up.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
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On a sleeve, what about locking up with a dog that pushes in and torques around?
IME sleeve sports don't want to see that. They would rather see the dog pulling or sitting there with a calm grip.

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Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
If the bite is full and deep, there is no reason to re-grip.

I disagree with this as well. I personally want to see a dog pushing, fighting and digging for more no matter how full the grip. Again just what I like to see.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mycobraracr View Post
IME sleeve sports don't want to see that. They would rather see the dog pulling or sitting there with a calm grip.




I disagree with this as well. I personally want to see a dog pushing, fighting and digging for more no matter how full the grip. Again just what I like to see.
In trial, the points would be for a full grip(that is what I was addressing, points in trial). I would also rather see a dog fight and not be along for the ride on a sleeve. Your comment to Steve is what I meant.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 05:10 PM
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But is it harder to lock up? I've seen a few good dogs that end up not outing because they were torquing around and the helper couldn't hold steady. Kinda like the feet on the helper. They start pushing or wrapping, the helper can't get set and it all goes off the rails.
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