What are your thoughts on this new rule? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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What are your thoughts on this new rule?

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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 10:46 AM
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I'm against the breed survey portion. The WUSV is not a breed test. It's a working competition. I'm unsure of the hip/elbow requirements. Many dogs with mild HD can work and compete at high levels without pain. But I do understand the point of it, which is to make sure dogs in pain are not being doped up and trialed.

IMO, subjective requirements such as conformation ratings and OFA should not be part of a competition. And conformation/reading xrays IS subjective. One judge might rate a dog an SG and another a G. Or one xray reviewer may rate a dog mild while the next one might pass the dog as fair. The breed survey will take out dogs with missing teeth, which has nothing to do with working ability.

At least the requirements to compete as it is now, while still has subjective components (after all humans are involved so it's never completely non biased), is based on performance.

Where do the requirement ends? And at whose insistence are they requirements being put in place? Is it to pacify AR's?




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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 10:46 AM
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I was actually surprised it wasn't already a rule. Mixed feelings. Not sure why they are all of a sudden deciding it needs to be done. Hard to know why the SV/WUSV makes decisions. Most people (extremely high percentage) competing at this level are not going to compete with a dog with bad hips/elbows that cause soundness issues. Why risk having the dog break down after putting in all of that training? There are enough other issues to worry about like backs, injuries, etc.

The Kör requirement probably won't fly since not all WUSV countries have a survey system. They may be able to require it for their own (SV) people, but I think they will have a fight to implement it for all countries.

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 10:48 AM
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And we will never pacify the AR's until they eliminate all dogs from all competitions and all areas of our lives. Hopefully this won't be the excuse they try to use yet again.

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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by lhczth View Post
And we will never pacify the AR's until they eliminate all dogs from all competitions and all areas of our lives. Hopefully this won't be the excuse they try to use yet again.
Exactly




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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 11:10 AM
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As an outsider reading that and not knowing much about the sport I took it as something that would go hand and hand with breeding. Well that was my first thought. Lots of breeders title their dogs as part of the breeding program so it would make sense as a safeguard the hips and elbows have to pass too. I never thought about injuries and stuff. If the hips and elbows don't pass the dog can't be titled and most likely won't be bred.

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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 11:23 AM
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Lisa - this requirement is only at the WUSV level. Not all dogs at all levels.

And good breeders don't breed dogs with HD/ED anyways. Bad breeders are not going to care about SV requirements at all. 95% of the people in this sport are not breeders and are doing it for enjoyment.




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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
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What I found interesting, is that this goes with some of our recent discussions. To me, the question is why. Why is this now so important? Is it because people are breeding to these dogs more and more? Is it because people aren't pairing dogs just points? They seem to be pushing for all dogs at WUSV to be breed surveyed as well. Again why is it all of a sudden an issue?

For the most part I agree that it's a sport. So who cares if it has bad hips/elbows as long as it scores high enough to be at that level. But I think the issue is deeper than that.

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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 11:58 AM
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I think you have to consider that breeding practices in other counties are quite different than in the United States and in Germany. Some of the other European nations with strong working dog histories are also pretty good with their breeding practices but there is still a lot of questionable stuff happening. The WUSV includes a lot of smaller counties with much shorter histories of working dogs and also different cultural norms when it comes to breeding dogs. Some of these countries don't have the same population of GSD to chose from when it comes to breeding that the countries with longer histories do. This is a world rule, it's not just a United States rule. As much as some of us disagree with breeding practices in the United States in regards to Schutzhund/IPO/WUSV...this country is light years ahead of many others that are also competing in the WUSV.

Think of this on a world scale, and it makes a ton more sense.

We have members on here from India, Egypt, and other countries which do not have the same working dog/show dog infrastructure of the US, Germany, Czech Republic, ect. Those members tend to shed a lot of light on what the state of the GSD breed is in those types of places. In those places...a WUSV competitor will be bred to countless bitches, mostly because there's nothing that probably even comes close to that type of dog. In the United States...while we don't have to breed to WUSV dogs, we have 70+ USCA nationals competitors, 70+ working dog competitors, and countless other regional level stud dogs to chose from. As tight as people think breeding in the United States is...it's probably way worse in other countries.

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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mycobraracr View Post
What I found interesting, is that this goes with some of our recent discussions. To me, the question is why. Why is this now so important? Is it because people are breeding to these dogs more and more? Is it because people aren't pairing dogs just points? They seem to be pushing for all dogs at WUSV to be breed surveyed as well. Again why is it all of a sudden an issue?

For the most part I agree that it's a sport. So who cares if it has bad hips/elbows as long as it scores high enough to be at that level. But I think the issue is deeper than that.

I wondered the same thing. What is the end game?

As Lisa pointed out, most competitors at that level have sound dogs. I think the OFA/a stamp req will affect very few people. I was just browsing last night so didn't read one current team member's post carefully but I think he said his dog has mild HD?

It's the breed survey I disagree with. The breed survey is the breeding requirement. Not the WUSV. That is a competition.




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