Looking for Options/Opinions - German Shepherd Dog Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
Master Member
 
gaia_bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 785
Looking for Options/Opinions

I feel like I have hit a wall with Cuervo's training, in a previous thread I had mentioned going to an e-collar (which is on the way) but I want to hear from others who have been in my shoes.

I'm relatively new to the sport, been active for about 3 years. When I got Cuervo, I got a little more dog than I bargined for but we compliment each other well. He's been described as a high drive, hard dog. I know there's some debate about what makes a dog hard but I had it explained to me that even the hardest corrections don't shut him down but rather make him stronger.

So here's my problem, I belong to a reward based club and it's just not working for us, he has next to zero food drive and working for a tug/ball is almost too much so we've switched to making him work for me which has cleared him up a lot. In our BH he was pushing me for a reward almost the whole time and the longer we went the more he built until control was almost borderline, so we completely revamped our training with the help of two experienced trainers. His foundation is solid, we have a great relationship BUT he still thinks it's okay to listen only when he wants so enter compulsion. It's working for us, everything has become black and white there is no more struggle in obedience or protection. I enjoy training again however some club members have expressed concern with the old school route our training is going and have mentioned that it makes them uncomfortable, he's a vocal dog so a good correction sounds like I'm murdering him.

Sorry for the novel but I'm open to suggestions on what might work for us.

Courtney M.
SG1
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, BH 07/01/2013
gaia_bear is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 09:34 AM
Crowned Member
 
Jax08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NNE PA
Posts: 30,079
how about a different club where their training is more balanced? how do they show their dogs consequences without some kind of correction?




Jax08 is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
Master Member
 
gaia_bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 785
I have options to train with another club, in the summer I'll be training with them a couple of times a month...it's more just a couple people who aren't comfortable. They have lower drive, very handler sensitive dogs who tend to shut down with correction and they really don't have consequences, it's just a different relationship than what I expect from my dog.

I'm probably reading too much into it and should just work my dog the way he needs to be worked. I tend to be a people pleaser so in a childish way it hurts my feelings when people feel the need to go to their car when I'm training. I know I'm not doing anything wrong, I'm not strong enough to actually hurt him and he hasn't shown any signs that this work isn't right for him but reactions like that make me second guess myself.

Courtney M.
SG1
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, BH 07/01/2013
gaia_bear is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 09:39 AM
Crowned Member
 
GatorDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,685
I'd have to see some video of whats going on, if unable to see in person.

I don't always find that training a dog to do something for no reward and "just because they have to" yields the most reliable results or desirable attitude in the dog. In most cases, at some point the dog becomes too frustrated by the lack of real motivation other than "because I don't want to get my ass kicked." You say he has great ball drive..why not just keep the reward hidden on your body (tucked in the back of your pants, inside your shirt sleeve, etc) and ask for the behavior that you want? If he's pushing you (either physically, like forging, or just generally bouncing around), he's incorrect in the behavior and clearly doesn't understand whats being asked. I would take a few steps back and ask for proper focus and positon with an out of sight reward, and pay him for the correct behavior quickly, building upon that. Once you get to the point of him exhibiting the proper behavior consistently, THEN I would add corrections for direct disobedience. But I think that a dog who is "pushing" for a reward when out of position or control is not clear in my expectations, and I don't consider corrections for a dog who isn't clear on what is being asked very fair.

But if you are getting the results that you want with the training that you're doing, then why change it?

Feuergarten German Shepherds

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by GatorDog; 05-25-2015 at 09:42 AM.
GatorDog is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
Master Member
 
gaia_bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 785
Sorry I wasn't clear, I always have a reward on me, just not in sight, and he does get rewarded with it just not as often as I had been because the ball was making him "spun" for lack of better words.

I'll have to take some video because I don't think I'm explaining it right.

Courtney M.
SG1
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, BH 07/01/2013
gaia_bear is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 09:46 AM
Crowned Member
 
GatorDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,685
So what exactly are you using compulsion for? Where are you losing control of the dog in training?

Feuergarten German Shepherds

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
GatorDog is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
Master Member
 
gaia_bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 785
When he chooses to blow me off, last time I trained with his breeder he brought it up that he was making the decision when he wanted to work or not.

Courtney M.
SG1
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, BH 07/01/2013
gaia_bear is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 10:12 AM
Administrator & LOTR Addict
 
lhczth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Bloomington, IN, USA
Posts: 18,719
Do you feel you are being unfair to your dog? If not then ignore those people. Are you getting the results, the picture you want? Then ignore those people. Trust in the trainer you are working with and ignore those people.

Lisa Clark

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

SG1 Deja IPO3 AWD1 KKL1 B/HOT, SG Elena IPO1 KKL CGC B/HOT, LB (the ugly little sable) IPO2 KKL B/HOT, Jarka (up and coming) BHOT, and gone but not forgotten,
Vala SchH3 AWD1 FH2 CGC B/HOT, Donovan IPO1 TR2 AD, Nike SchH1 OB1 TR3 AD CGC HOT, Treue SchH3 CD CGC HOT



lhczth is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
Master Member
 
gaia_bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhczth View Post
Do you feel you are being unfair to your dog? If not then ignore those people. Are you getting the results, the picture you want? Then ignore those people. Trust in the trainer you are working with and ignore those people.
I don't feel that I'm being unfair to him at all, he's happy and wanting to continue to work. Training is less of a struggle, a lot of it was my problem I let him get away with far too much for far too long, we are finally working together rather than against each other. I trust my trainers, they have the experience and knowledge that I don't. I think that's what I need to do.

Courtney M.
SG1
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, BH 07/01/2013
gaia_bear is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 02:58 PM
Knighted Member
 
Vandal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Saugus, CA
Posts: 2,297
Quote:
I'm probably reading too much into it and should just work my dog the way he needs to be worked. I tend to be a people pleaser so in a childish way it hurts my feelings when people feel the need to go to their car when I'm training. I know I'm not doing anything wrong, I'm not strong enough to actually hurt him and he hasn't shown any signs that this work isn't right for him but reactions like that make me second guess myself.
You answered your own question. Work on yourself and your reaction to people like that. That is their problem, not yours.

I was working a dog for a woman at a club and asked her to simply point her dog at blind five and as she was sending him to simply direct the dog with her hand on the collar while she pointed at the blind. I was agitating the dog from the other blind and in the midst of it, ( and believe me, there was no struggle at all with the handler and the dog), a woman watching stood up, proclaimed loudly " I thought this was supposed to be a game!" and stormed off to her car. I'll admit, I was momentarily mesmerized by her behavior but we moved right along and left it where it belonged...in her head, not ours. You have to protect yourself from people who try to convince you are somehow "cruel" when you know you are not. That behavior is becoming much more common now.

I will say this though, if you have to continually correct your dog and it does not become a more rare occurrence, you are doing something wrong. The purpose of a correction is to teach the dog. Once the dog learns, they are not necessary or only rarely. Also, your demeanor must remain the same. Meaning you are upbeat and the same friendly person when you are correcting. People get upset when they watch an angry person correcting a dog or someone raising their voice. For good reason, that behavior upsets the dog as well and is not good training. Something to consider if any of those things fit what you are doing.

Why you are going to the e-collar if this is working?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Anne

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Vandal; 05-25-2015 at 03:04 PM.
Vandal is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome