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-   -   Dumbbells (https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/schutzhund-ipo-training/523674-dumbbells.html)

JRZ91 01-29-2015 12:12 AM

Dumbbells
 
Just starting to do retrieves for the first time and was wondering if you should start out using the IPO 1 dumbbell or start on a smaller training dumbbell to get them used to it?

Steve Strom 01-29-2015 09:43 AM

A friend mentioned to me that it was helpful with teaching hold. Are you going to do a motivational retrieve? Or forced?

lhczth 01-29-2015 09:57 AM

I use a plastic AKC style dumbbell (DB) when doing a shaped retrieve and have used a wood then plastic dowel moving up to the plastic DB when doing a forced. Once they are solid on the plastic DB I move to the IPO1 DB. I use both styles once they are comfortable with the retrieve since the new IPO type DB are not balanced as well (IMO).

I like the plastic DB because it tends to fit much more nicely behind the canines and the dog learns the proper holding behaviors from the start. When I have tried starting with the IPO DB I found they were more likely to want to roll the that larger dowel farther back in their mouths or play with it.

JRZ91 01-29-2015 10:10 AM

Clicker
 
I'll be doing a shaped clicker retrieve. I've been using that for article indication and since he's used to it thought I'd just continue with that.

Thanks Lisa, I'll go that route, mine as well just buy both and start on the plastic one.

Liesje 01-29-2015 10:32 AM

I use a dowel of 1-1/4 PVC to train the hold. I like the slippery plastic and am picking about a calm, firm hold with no chewing. I do a lot of hitting on the sides of the dowel to train the hold. I find that if the dog can hold calm and firm on slippery plastic, they have no trouble with a wood dumbell, even going straight to the IPO3 (sometimes the weight actually helps encourage the firm hold). I don't play tug with dumbells or use them to entice play or prey behavior (no drive for the dumbbell itself).

wolfmanusf 01-29-2015 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liesje (Post 6481250)
I use a dowel of 1-1/4 PVC to train the hold. I like the slippery plastic and am picking about a calm, firm hold with no chewing. I do a lot of hitting on the sides of the dowel to train the hold. I find that if the dog can hold calm and firm on slippery plastic, they have no trouble with a wood dumbell, even going straight to the IPO3 (sometimes the weight actually helps encourage the firm hold). I don't play tug with dumbells or use them to entice play or prey behavior (no drive for the dumbbell itself).

This. I don't like going straight to wood because some dogs can find it enjoyable/stress relieving by crunching down on the wood. I use a modified force technique.

G-burg 01-29-2015 12:51 PM

You'll have to let us know how it goes... :)

When teaching dumbbells, I've started all my dogs right on the SchH/IPO dumbbells.. The 1 for teaching the hold part and the 3 for teaching the retrieve part.. This is just how I prefer to do it.. But I also take my time..

Liesje 01-29-2015 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfmanusf (Post 6481834)
This. I don't like going straight to wood because some dogs can find it enjoyable/stress relieving by crunching down on the wood. I use a modified force technique.

To be honest, I started with a PVC dowell because I did not own a dumbbell and still do not have a full set (I now have a 1 and a 3 but they are the original style, though my dogs will retrive whatever I throw, the dumbbells are easier to pick up than a lot of objects). I also do agility so I pulled an 8" PVC leg off one of my jumps and that is how I started. It worked for my first dog, never lost points on the hold, no chewing, you can slam on the dumbbell while in his mouth and it doesn't move yet the out is clean, so I just kept doing it that way. Next dog also had really nice, clean, fast retrieves with correct hold and out. I'd be fine using the same training method with a wooden dowell or the real dumbbell. I do like that the PVC is a bit slippery so I think it helps proof the hold, but is not necessary. Like Leesa said, I go slow, no rush, too many points at stake to rush it and I want the dog to understand the expectations for each piece of the behavior chain.

DJEtzel 01-29-2015 01:45 PM

I used a plastic 1 pound dumbbell to start... so far, so good!

Steve Strom 01-29-2015 02:10 PM

If your going to work on hold in your shaping JR, I like the idea of using the dowel or pvc for it separate of everything else. Your using something they really don't want along with the act of putting it in their mouth, not them taking it from your hand, to create that feeling with them that they have to do it. There's no choice. Not exactly a forced retrieve, but it is a like a subtle compulsion.


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