Platz during bark and hold? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-28-2014, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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Platz during bark and hold?

We have begun to teach the bark and hold on a long line. However, when giving the revere command, Titan has now begun to platz. He still continues to bark strongly, and launches with a full bite.
The helper I am working with says that there is no set rule saying he has to sit during the bark and hold.
However, I would prefer to teach the bark and hold as a sit.
In my mind, I want to teach him to sit beside me, give the revere command, and on the send out, give the sit command, until he gets into a routine and there is no need to give the sit command after the revere.
The trainer and helper both say to reward the platz. Is this okay? I just don't see him eventually starting to sit.
I read on the working dog forum that when the dog goes into the platz, that it could be a confidence issue, and he is being worked too much in defense.
I'm just trying to wrap my head around all this, being so new to the sport.
Basically, I want to know if it's okay for him to be in a platz during the bark and hold. I know there isn't a rule against it, but what exactly does him doing that means, and if it could cause any further issues in the future.
How is the bark and hold normally taught?
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-28-2014, 12:45 PM
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I wouldn't want a platz. I wouldn't want to reward what I don't want. Maybe its something like too much obedience from you right there, he's not ready for that. One thing I might think about is removing you from it a little.

Maybe ask the helper about letting Titan drag you forward to him after a couple of misses. Try and make it more between the helper and Titan, less influence from you for right now.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-28-2014, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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As of right now, Titan is tied to a tree, with a long line attached to his harness. He is given the rever command, and he runs to the end of the line where he then will platz and bark.
I then (per my trainer and helper) tell him good rever. The helper will then raise the stick and the sleeve, and he launches for a bite. The helper fights him, might wave the stick, or he will hit the long line. Titan will then fight harder, and he will growl on occasion, which I asked about and they said they weren't worried about it. He will then slip the sleeve, I give the out command, and we start again.
I would prefer to only reward him if he sits, but he seems to naturally want to platz, and then since we have been rewarding it, he does it automatically now. Which I really don't want
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-28-2014, 01:12 PM
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Why do you want him to sit?
I'd want an active guard with strong barking. I don't want my dog bouncing up in the face either, but actively barking at the helper in a rhythm with power. Some people think the in your face guarding is cool, but all that jumping is a waste of energy(should be redirected into the power of the bark)

I agree with Steve, let Titan drag you to the helper. I would work on this in the open/not in the blind.

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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-28-2014, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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He has not done any blind work yet.
He's just on a 30 foot line. But it's attached to a tree.
I will ask if I can have him drag me towards the helper during our next session.
I was just wondering if it's ok to do a bark and hold from a platz and if it would cause any problems.
He still barks strong, and will launch from the platz, and bites full. I just didn't know if this was excepted or not. And if it meant he wasn't as confident, because he is laying down.
When I asked the helper about this, he told me it's his way of thinking, and it's the only way he can contain himself not to bite until he's supposed to.
I'm just trying to understand why he would chose to platz instead of sit, if here was any real meaning behind it, or if it's just something he does.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-28-2014, 01:26 PM
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Maybe get him off the tree and see if there is any difference. Can you safely post him to keep him where he should be? Table work may help with this. I personally wouldn't want my dog sitting or platzing during an active guard.

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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-28-2014, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
He is given the rever command, and he runs to the end of the line where he then will platz and bark.
It may be that sudden jolt at the end of the line thats causing it. Try taking him calmly to the end of the line, sit him, calmly, then activate him and get out of the way. Let the helper take it from there.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-28-2014, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTS View Post
As of right now, Titan is tied to a tree, with a long line attached to his harness. He is given the rever command, and he runs to the end of the line where he then will platz and bark.
I then (per my trainer and helper) tell him good rever. The helper will then raise the stick and the sleeve, and he launches for a bite. The helper fights him, might wave the stick, or he will hit the long line. Titan will then fight harder, and he will growl on occasion, which I asked about and they said they weren't worried about it. He will then slip the sleeve, I give the out command, and we start again.
I would prefer to only reward him if he sits, but he seems to naturally want to platz, and then since we have been rewarding it, he does it automatically now. Which I really don't want
Is he on a prong collar? My trainer always wants loose lines. He doesn't even want the line lying in my hand and putting any tension on his collar. My suspicion is he's on a tight line, you have no control because he's tied to a tree so he started lying down trying to figure out what you wanted from him.

If you want him to sit, don't give him the sleeve for platzing.

ETA: I was trying to describe what Steve did above! The jolt at the end of the line is 'correcting' him.




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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-28-2014, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
I personally wouldn't want my dog sitting or platzing during an active guard.
Why?

That's what we're working on with Seger. He's sitting and guarding. I don't want him on his feet so he can jump in the helper's face. He has a nice rhythm he settles in to while guarding where he almost rocks his body.




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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-28-2014, 01:52 PM
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But he isn't sitting, he is still in a rhythm, that is what I am describing. There is movement as he guards, he isn't just sitting there barking, correct?

Jane~
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