WUSV - Has a showline won over working lines - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-01-2014, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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WUSV - Has a showline won over working lines

I always see Schutzhund titles on showline shepherds and got to thinking...has one ever won the WUSV or another national/international event, beating out working line shepherds?

Deanna

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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-01-2014, 01:14 PM
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I believe the last meaningful win for a showline dog at a performance event was 'V'Cliff Hühnegrab's 2nd place finish at the 1989 Bundessiegerprüfung. He was 7th in 88 and 3rd in 87. He failed tracking at the only WUSV event he attended.

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-01-2014, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, thank you Lisa. I'm still learning about the different lines and important dogs that pertain to them. When looking at the different pedigrees, you see a lot of titles. Looking at them with inexperienced eye, they look really nice, BUT more merit is placed at higher level of competition it seems. Many are titled through a SchIII in the pedigrees. Looking at the bigger picture though, with WUSV participation vs. placing they have not done performed as well in the past. Still lots to learn : ) Thanks again!

Deanna

SG Isen Vom Kavallerie IPO2 AD BH CGCA CGCU TC (GSD)
Devka von der Felsenstadt (GSD)
Red CGC (GSD)
Gypsy BH CGCA (lab)


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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-01-2014, 10:41 PM
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Ory vom Zollernblut competed and placed high at National Events here in the US. I think also Universal Sieger a couple times in the late 90's!
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-01-2014, 11:42 PM
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There are many showline a that will do great at WUSV.
The problem is a showline breeder who owns a V rated dog will not want it to lose against a dog who won't place in the top 100 in s conformation ring. Therefore they won't enter the dog.

Contrary to most belief showlines actually struggle with tracking and not bite work. Trainers constantly correct the dog for sniffing or carrying the head low, because a head held high expresses the withers and top line when gaiting.

Many showline dogs have sch3 but I still think WUSV sport dogs have a good edge since they were more bread for that sport
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-01-2014, 11:44 PM
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Cheryl Nance and Chloe v Bullinger were in the top 10 at the 2013 UScA championships.

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-02-2014, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by d4mmo View Post
The problem is a showline breeder who owns a V rated dog will not want it to lose against a dog who won't place in the top 100 in s conformation ring. Therefore they won't enter the dog.

Contrary to most belief showlines actually struggle with tracking and not bite work. Trainers constantly correct the dog for sniffing or carrying the head low, because a head held high expresses the withers and top line when gaiting.
I beg to differ on both counts! I've never heard of a show line breeder aspiring to qualify to the WUSV, let alone give the excuse quoted. The WUSV is a Schutzhund trial, not a show so it has nothing to do with losing a Schutzhund event to a dog that they can beat in conformation. What?

Second, I think that is projecting a lot. That is like saying working line dogs who are great at obedience (thus maintaining eye contact and intense focus on their handler) must suck at tracking because they are conflicted between their head up or now. No, not at all. Besides, Schutzhund style tracking really *is* about obedience, it's taking a natural drive and stylizing it quite a lot. I have a V-rated 100% WGSL dog and he is a fantastic tracker. To say that a dog can only be excellent at one thing is really selling dogs short. I have dogs that train and compete in half a dozen different sports. It is TRAINING and dogs are very smart, complex, animals, they know when they are doing protection vs flyball vs conformation ring vs obedience.

A dog I know got a perfect 100 points on a SchH2 track and then the next weekend placed V2 (just 2 years old, second only to a 3 times VA dog). Tracking and conformation...it's not really a big deal.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-03-2014, 01:29 AM
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WUSV - Has a showline won over working lines

The point of the SV show is to pinpoint the dog which is most capable of doing the job the breed was created for, the dogs need to show correct conformation, drive, strength, quality, gait etc. sch is indeed something the breed should excel in.
Now in the mind of show breeders and judges the va1 dog should beat the working line dog considering they both have the same training.
Hence why many breeders won't subject the show dog to that.

Also not all but many show breeders dont aspire to do wusv due to the SV show being a bigger more recognized competition which there dogs are more suited to, others simply don't care for it as a sch1 title or h1 is all that's needed for breeding.

I participate my dog in showing, tracking and obedience. I am still learning and am being guided by professionals who have been breeding showing and training for 40plus years. They all use a flat collar for obedience, show collar for show, and a harness for tracking. The different collars allow the dog to know which job it is performing.
Most of these guys won't start the dog on tracking, obedience u till 9 months.
The first 9 months is show training and drive building. Sniffing comes more natural to a dog than constantly keeping the head up.

This obviously isn't the case for all trainers, this is what I have been told and shown.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-03-2014, 09:26 AM
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Funny, then any dog eligible for VA should be scoring 5-5 in bitework and putting up national level eligible scores (270+) in trials if a VA rating is for a dog "capable of doing the job" but that is not the case. Sounds like breeders making up excuses.

I have trained, shown, and trialed with a showline dog. It's not rocket science. I do not train him any differently because he is a "show" dog. I have a high standard that is the same for ALL of my GSDs. I don't need different equipment to cue the dog to what we are doing, he is smart enough to know because of what he has been trained and what he's being presented with on that day.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-03-2014, 10:28 AM
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SG1 Deja IPO3 AWD1 KKL1 B/HOT, SG Elena IPO1 KKL CGC B/HOT, LB (the ugly little sable) IPO2 KKL B/HOT, Jarka (up and coming) BHOT, and gone but not forgotten,
Vala SchH3 AWD1 FH2 CGC B/HOT, Donovan IPO1 TR2 AD, Nike SchH1 OB1 TR3 AD CGC HOT, Treue SchH3 CD CGC HOT



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