"Automatic outs" - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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"Automatic outs"

So recently I have been noticing a trend with a few bite sports where the dogs are automatically outing once the helper/decoy locks up. Is this a desired behavior? What are your reasons for doing this/not doing this?


I will start. One of the groups I train with said yes because "that's the way the Germans have done it". Well that's not reason enough for me. I refuse to have my dogs auto out for one reason. Yes I train sport but I try to keep my dogs as "real" as possible. I look at it like this. If my dog bites a real bad guy and he stops moving then my dog outs, then it gives the bad guy a chance/reason to start running again. That means my dog is going to engage again and take a second bite causing more damage that my dog and myself are liable for. Plus at that point if a guy is running away then he is no longer a threat and now I'm really screwed. So I will not teach an auto out.
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 11:28 AM
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I hate to see it. Right up there with a dog who tucks his forelegs in from being "swept" too much.
People have told me they would rather have a too quick, clean out than have slow outs.....
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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That's what I have heard to and I hate it!
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 12:43 PM
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Don't really like it, prefer the dog to fight until I say out. In fact I think I'd rather have a dog that is like "aus!" (count one one thousand) and the dog outs, than a dog who is thinking about outing and waiting for the helper to act like he's locked up. You can always work on a faster/cleaner out on command. In what context is the dog outing before the command useful or desireable? I believe in some sports (SDA?) the dog MUST fight until the out command is given. Similarly in SDA when doing the alerting exercises the dog MUST remain barking/alerting until he is recalled (even if the decoy is walking away and going back into a blind). You turn the dog on, you turn the dog off. Makes sense to me.
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
Don't really like it, prefer the dog to fight until I say out. In fact I think I'd rather have a dog that is like "aus!" (count one one thousand) and the dog outs, than a dog who is thinking about outing and waiting for the helper to act like he's locked up. You can always work on a faster/cleaner out on command. In what context is the dog outing before the command useful or desireable? I believe in some sports (SDA?) the dog MUST fight until the out command is given. Similarly in SDA when doing the alerting exercises the dog MUST remain barking/alerting until he is recalled (even if the decoy is walking away and going back into a blind). You turn the dog on, you turn the dog off. Makes sense to me.


You are correct. This weekend I saw a couple dogs lose points for outing too early. I'm with you, I don't want the dog to anticipate the out. I'm just seeing this auto out stuff everywhere lately so I thought I would ask.
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 12:55 PM
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I do believe, a new rule discourages this for IPO as well... The rules state there must be a "transition" (my interpretation: fighting) phase between the lock-up and the out.

I like scrappy dogs personally. I like a dog that might be a bit dirty and slow to out but is fighting till the end. I like a dog that acts as if he's thinking "Locking up and freezing ain't going to get you out of this one buddy..." I usually have him fight for a while. NO out. Escape, fight, drive, fight. Then maybe I'll out. If my dog starts having outing problems we might work on that specifically but I *personally* wouldn't teach auto out to a dog just because he has outing trouble.

But I have seen auto outs taught on certain dogs because their handlers preferred it that way. If those handlers were still at our club I might have asked them why, but now my curiosity is piqued. I'd love to hear someone's reasons for being pro auto-out
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 12:59 PM
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I would think the auto-out would be helpful points-wise for a dog who regrips/chews/thrashes or performs other points losing behaviors after the lock-up but before the out.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 01:20 PM
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This will now lose you points in IPO. I believe it's been reworded that your dog should not out until given the command.

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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mycobraracr View Post
You are correct. This weekend I saw a couple dogs lose points for outing too early. I'm with you, I don't want the dog to anticipate the out. I'm just seeing this auto out stuff everywhere lately so I thought I would ask.
Yes, even though you lose points per the rules, people are still training it.

And maybe sometimes it is just the dog?
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 01:58 PM
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We have several members that train the automatic out. They would rather loose a few points for too quick an out than DQ for no out. One very strong club dog DQed last year at the se regional for not outing. I am sure that was very aggrevating after all that training.
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