Futtertreiben - don't ask me for an English Translation, I don't know it LOL - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-10-2012, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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Futtertreiben - don't ask me for an English Translation, I don't know it LOL

Maybe anyone here can tell me how you call "Futtertreiben" in English.

Since we've had a very long break (not wanted of course) it looks like we are getting more secure in what we do. She steps less on my feet (not sure what I'm doing wrong that she's actually doing it in the first place), the "Hier" looks much better.

Only thing I notice is that I really need a mirror instead of looking down, it completely screws up my position. How are you dealing with that problem or is that merely a "Beginner" thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plv_vTb6rXM

So any suggestions where to go from here? I do have another lesson soon and we really need it too to get further.

Last edited by Mrs.K; 07-10-2012 at 09:17 PM.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-10-2012, 09:17 PM
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I have the same issue - I was told to get a spotter - has helped!!!

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-10-2012, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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Okay. If I really can get this Obedience Training Group going, that would help a lot in finding spotters.

It's Babysteps but I do think you can really see a bit improvement, I just hope I didn't build any mistakes in.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-10-2012, 09:29 PM
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I am lucky that I have a few good spotters who will work with me outside of training days.

You need to move closer to ONT so you can come and join us!

I think she is looking good! She reminds me of my Zef... lol.

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-10-2012, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
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Hey, who knows where I'm ending up when the whole ordeal is over, I might just move to Canada haha.

The funny thing is that I've been driving five hours for Search Training before and I'll drive it this weekend to get ready for the Certification. Maybe I can actually come for training once a month?
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-10-2012, 09:58 PM
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Not sure what part of the video the German word is referring to, so no idea how to translate.

Overall I think things look very nice. The biggest suggestion I would have is that when you are heeling, to move out faster with longer strides. Her movement is very stilted and unnatural because of the slow pace and stretching up for the lure. When working with a lure like that for heeling, the dog isn't learning position so much as they are learning muscle memory for the mechanics of heeling, so you want to practice the correct mechanics so that is what her body becomes conditioned to. Fine tuning position in slow motion is fine, but for that the lure needs to be removed as when the lure is there the dog isn't really thinking about position, but just following the lure wherever it goes. Here I would use a spotter to help you dial in what is for her the best pace at which to move so that she can stride freely and enthusiastically, without lifting so much in front that her rear is crouching too low, stutter stepping or other ways dogs often have an unnatural gait in heeling.

So depending on what you're goal is for any given session, I'd change those things. Move faster and stride out when using luring to build muscle memory mechanics, and remove the lure so she has to really pay attention to where you are and her orientation to you, not just follow the food, if fine tuning position.

If your reference to using a mirror or spotter instead of looking down is with regard to heel position, there are downsides to both. A mirror is obviously an unnatural prop that you have to figure out how to hold, and the problem with a spotter is that by the time they have communicated to you that something is good and needing reinforcement, or bad and needing fixing, usually the moment has passed.

It's best to learn to keep your upper body square, but look at the dog down out of the corner of your eye. Or if that isn't possible due to certain female frontal appendages getting in the way (a problem I also have), then rather than dip your shoulder and head down to look, bend slightly at the waist. This way you can keep your upper body square, and present a square sight picture to the dog, just a slightly lowered one. The problem with dipping the shoulder and head to look down is that the dog becomes accustomed to that sight picture. And then when the handler straightens up and faces forward, suddenly the dog is crowding and crooked because the dog is trying to obtain the same sight picture that they are used to and think is correct. Bending at the waist allows you to remain straight in relation to the dog, not crooked so there is less chance of the dog getting crooked when you straighten up to maintain the same orientation to the handler that she thinks she's supposed to have.


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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-10-2012, 10:02 PM
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Doodling? That is what I call heeling around with food, heeling short distances making up turns, finishes, etc as I go with no really pattern, lots of rewards.

When I got Pan we were training indoors at a smaller place that had mirrors on three walls. I paid WAY more attention to correct position with Pan than with Nikon and those mirrors really helped me be able to keep my back up and shoulders forward without constantly looking down and inadvertently "pushing" the dog out of position by dropping my shoulder. At my old house I hung two cheap mirrors up, originally for conformation training, but I use them to train positions. Without mirrors or a spotter, my TD told me to just keep my chest forward and square, and basically march along like I *know* my dog is there in position. When I train in my front yard I often check our position in my reflection in the windows at the front of the house.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrs.K View Post
Hey, who knows where I'm ending up when the whole ordeal is over, I might just move to Canada haha.

The funny thing is that I've been driving five hours for Search Training before and I'll drive it this weekend to get ready for the Certification. Maybe I can actually come for training once a month?
That would be so neat!

I won't be at training this week because my sister who I haven't seen in almost a year is coming for a visit but definitely I will let you know and we can set something up!

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wild View Post
Not sure what part of the video the German word is referring to, so no idea how to translate.

Overall I think things look very nice. The biggest suggestion I would have is that when you are heeling, to move out faster with longer strides. Her movement is very stilted and unnatural because of the slow pace and stretching up for the lure. When working with a lure like that for heeling, the dog isn't learning position so much as they are learning muscle memory for the mechanics of heeling, so you want to practice the correct mechanics so that is what her body becomes conditioned to. Fine tuning position in slow motion is fine, but for that the lure needs to be removed as when the lure is there the dog isn't really thinking about position, but just following the lure wherever it goes. Here I would use a spotter to help you dial in what is for her the best pace at which to move so that she can stride freely and enthusiastically, without lifting so much in front that her rear is crouching too low, stutter stepping or other ways dogs often have an unnatural gait in heeling.

So depending on what you're goal is for any given session, I'd change those things. Move faster and stride out when using luring to build muscle memory mechanics, and remove the lure so she has to really pay attention to where you are and her orientation to you, not just follow the food, if fine tuning position.

If your reference to using a mirror or spotter instead of looking down is with regard to heel position, there are downsides to both. A mirror is obviously an unnatural prop that you have to figure out how to hold, and the problem with a spotter is that by the time they have communicated to you that something is good and needing reinforcement, or bad and needing fixing, usually the moment has passed.

It's best to learn to keep your upper body square, but look at the dog down out of the corner of your eye. Or if that isn't possible due to certain female frontal appendages getting in the way (a problem I also have), then rather than dip your shoulder and head down to look, bend slightly at the waist. This way you can keep your upper body square, and present a square sight picture to the dog, just a slightly lowered one. The problem with dipping the shoulder and head to look down is that the dog becomes accustomed to that sight picture. And then when the handler straightens up and faces forward, suddenly the dog is crowding and crooked because the dog is trying to obtain the same sight picture that they are used to and think is correct. Bending at the waist allows you to remain straight in relation to the dog, not crooked so there is less chance of the dog getting crooked when you straighten up to maintain the same orientation to the handler that she thinks she's supposed to have.
Thank you so much for all your advise. I know I have to get faster and build confidence in my own strides and move out. I just hope we are really at that point where I can start doing it. In between, mainly due to my positioning, she can get off the hand and that is not supposed to happen, which is why I've been moving slowly and short distances. Simply to build time and muscle memory to keep her on the hand. But I don't want her to become one of those dogs that moves so unnatural and starts doing those weird jumps. I'd much rather have her heeling like a happy little girl that is pleasing the eye but for that, I have to learn a lot more and I know that we have a long and rocky road ahead of us if we'll ever want to get to that point.

It's amazing how much I've learned lately. I had no idea how many things I've been doing wrong.
My main issue is my positioning. I see that my friend can help with that. We train together most of the time, these days.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-11-2012, 03:21 PM
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It could mean food drive or driving for the food or probably the best translation would be "lure".

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