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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2012, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
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Human Behavior

So in the thread about prey drive, it was said "You are not comparing medical studies on people to dogs are you Hunter?" which got my response of, well yes, of course I am... which leads to this question. Do you believe the drives, instincts, and behaviors in dogs are not present in humans (or the rest of the animal kingdom for that matter)?

My belief is that they are. Nothing I see in a dog do I not see in humans. Our prey drive is arguably lower as we have not had to depend on it for quite a long time, and thus its probably the same as the level of dog breeds that have been bred without regard to prey drive. After all, what makes someone able to catch a fast football, or anything else that requires quick movement, spatial awareness, and hand-eye coordination. I suspect its linked to an age when the football was really made of pig skin, while it was still on the pig. Our eyes both face forward.. not a coincidence. All predatory species have that trait for depth perception. All prey species have eyes on the sides of the head for maximum visual awareness.

Our social aggression is quite alive and well as it still very much is involved in sexual selection. In fact our method of posturing at one another is nearly identical to dogs. Many of our social behaviors are paralleled. Refusing to shake an outstretched hand is no different than a dog refusing to let another smell it's but. Another man staring intensely across the bar at me illicits the same response to a dog... either I go into avoidance (leave) or push him into avoidance through escalation ("Whats your problem guy?" or "Bark bark").

Our behaviors are driven by the very same hormones. Such the same that drugs that manipulate those hormones nearly always work in both species. From antihistamines all the way to dopamine manipulators and androgen binding drugs. In fact the last paper I referenced in the other thread demonstrated how a change in testosterone level of the handler during competition directly influenced the cortisol (stress) level of the dog! So my view is, how could one possibly think we are all that different when you strip away the insignificant details?

Food for thought. I don't view my dogs as any different or more or less affected by environmental influences in any different way. I'm just smarter than they are the majority of the time. Personally, I think I'm all the better trainer for it.

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2012, 05:06 PM
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I not only agree with you, but I think that many of society's big questions can be answered in the animal world. My wife asks me why our four sons are fighting, (with my 17 & 14 yr old it is called school sponsored wrestling, and guess what, it is all boys) and I tell her they are just practicing for adulthood in which they will fight for food or breeding rights, she rolls her eyes and tells me to shut up. But who goes to college on a scholarship, the wrestler or the Star Wars enthusiast? And which will have the gorgeous and successful wife? (just for the record, I am not a "sports" guy). I am guessing the guy who wears the pointy ears is not going to be prom king either.

I was called to my youngest sons grade school (5 yrs old, kindergarten) because he was in trouble, he actually stomped in some slush and it splashed on another little boys pants. I was not happy about this, nor was I shocked. I was told our school has a zero tolerance policy towards violence, and this is his last warning. I asked just how they plan to unwind a couple of million years of evolution and they don't seem to have an answer quite yet. This "we are different" stuff doesn't address the facts. Yeah, we have big brains and manners, so do dolphins. Mothers and fathers have a huge responsibility to raise offspring in a way that they can be successful, doesn't matter if you walk on two legs, four legs or swim a lot.

Btw, manners is the human word for bite inhibition . Look no further than Hollywood for a good example of resource hoarding and guarding when animals are allowed to live without rules. But I digress....

My sincere apologies to you if you are a Star Wars enthusiast and wear pointy ears.

Ken
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2012, 05:30 PM
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I think the basic instincts are there: survival and procreation.
Survival instincts are definitely similar - we are both social predators and such. But the hunting method will be different. Humans are better at long distance running and avoiding the problems that come with that (number 1 - exhaustion and overheating). This is why we sweat and this is how we hunted before tools - by literally running the prey to death. While humans keep cool by sweating and by having less fur, dogs cannot and do not hunt this way.

But I digress... Prey drive, aggression, etc are all there. But its mostly superficial in my opinion (due to the fact that we are both social predators). Humans are obviously much more akin to apes than canines in communication, posturing (to name one specific example), and behavior.

But there are similarities between dogs' basic instincts and humans' definitely
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2012, 05:36 PM
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You HAVE to get, and read Temple Grandin's books!!
Dr. Temple Grandin's Official Autism Website

The reason we are so much alike is our brains are the same with the exception of our frontal lobes being much more developed, giving us inhibition where animals have none.

"Animals In Translation" is a great place to start, and then I read "Animals Make us Human".
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2012, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterisgreat View Post
So in the thread about prey drive, it was said "You are not comparing medical studies on people to dogs are you Hunter?" which got my response of, well yes, of course I am... which leads to this question. Do you believe the drives, instincts, and behaviors in dogs are not present in humans (or the rest of the animal kingdom for that matter)?
Common drives, instincts, and behaviours? Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterisgreat View Post
Our behaviors are driven by the very same hormones. Such the same that drugs that manipulate those hormones nearly always work in both species. From antihistamines all the way to dopamine manipulators and androgen binding drugs.

...

So my view is, how could one possibly think we are all that different when you strip away the insignificant details?
Depends on what you're discussing.

We are genetically more similar to mice than dogs. Yet, it is incredibly difficult to develop treatments in mouse models that work on humans. Why? Because 'insignificant' details matter in those instances. Same with drug responses (includes hormones, etc.). Those details are pretty significant if you, for example, just gave your dog Tylenol, don't you think?

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Originally Posted by 65Champagne View Post
But who goes to college on a scholarship, the wrestler or the Star Wars enthusiast? And which will have the gorgeous and successful wife? (just for the record, I am not a "sports" guy). I am guessing the guy who wears the pointy ears is not going to be prom king either.

...

My sincere apologies to you if you are a Star Wars enthusiast and wear pointy ears.


Though I'm not a Star Wars enthusiast and don't wear pointy ears, I am a nerd/geek of the first order. I absolutely did have a full ride scholarship to college and I didn't have to apply for it. I even had to beat off guys with a stick. No, really. Apparently male geeks get a bit over-enthusiastic when the meet a female geek for the first time.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2012, 05:39 PM
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We are all animals, we are all subject to Nature's design. All are given various instincts and drives, evolution determines how strong each instinct and drive will be.

Humans are animals. Shocking, I know.

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2012, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Though I'm not a Star Wars enthusiast and don't wear pointy ears, I am a nerd/geek of the first order. I absolutely did have a full ride scholarship to college and I didn't have to apply for it. I even had to beat off guys with a stick. No, really. Apparently male geeks get a bit over-enthusiastic when the meet a female geek for the first time.
First, I salute your geektitude, and I applaud your bigger brain. In my genetic cesspool, academic scholarships were not an option. I had to write a check. Fortunately for my children, their "Dam" has brought a superior pedigree to offset what some might consider a breed flaw in me! (my parents are from the south, you know, BYB and all...)

Ken
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Last edited by lhczth; 06-14-2012 at 06:00 PM. Reason: fixing quote
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2012, 05:56 PM
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Sorry, off topic, but generally when people refer to pointy ears they are Star TREK enthusiasts and not Star Wars (I am both , btw) This rather geeky gal ended up with a redneck jock. LOL

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2012, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by lhczth View Post
Sorry, off topic, but generally when people refer to pointy ears they are Star TREK enthusiasts and not Star Wars (I am both , btw) This rather geeky gal ended up with a redneck jock. LOL
Yah I was gonna say, that's Spock, btw! Mr. Green blood himself.
signed - another geek
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2012, 06:06 PM
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Sorry, off topic, but generally when people refer to pointy ears they are Star TREK enthusiasts and not Star Wars (I am both , btw) This rather geeky gal ended up with a redneck jock. LOL
OMG, I am in way over my head here. Nano-nano to you all...spock out.

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Idol - GSD 3 yrs

RIP: Cheyenne, GSD 1999-2011
RIP: Yeti, GSD 2016
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