question on prong collars? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-09-2012, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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question on prong collars?

from what i have read in schutzhund books, prong collars are used to incite/escalate aggression in training. from what i have read/seen on the internet they are mainly used for corrections and to curb leash pulling. would over using them for corrections raise the threshold and make cause for something more (ecollar?). also, isn't leash puling/dragging into a bite useful, so why would you use the same method for correction as well as encouragement. i am simply confussed why you would use the same tool for completely different behaviors. if some of you could explain when and for what reasons you use this tool or any other varations.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-09-2012, 01:49 PM
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from what i have read in schutzhund books, prong collars are used to incite/escalate aggression in training. .
Which book? I use the prong for corrections like pulling - in fact, that's the only reason I put the prong on Koda.


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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-09-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimm View Post
from what i have read in schutzhund books, prong collars are used to incite/escalate aggression in training. from what i have read/seen on the internet they are mainly used for corrections and to curb leash pulling. would over using them for corrections raise the threshold and make cause for something more (ecollar?). also, isn't leash puling/dragging into a bite useful, so why would you use the same method for correction as well as encouragement. i am simply confussed why you would use the same tool for completely different behaviors. if some of you could explain when and for what reasons you use this tool or any other varations.
There are lots of ways to bring out more intensity

An ecollar isn't "more" it's a totally different tool.

Leash pulling is ok during bite building.

If a dogs threshold blowing off for a correction is getting higher, you're doing it wrong. It should get lower

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-09-2012, 02:06 PM
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Some people use the prong in protection to raise aggression. The idea is, when the dog engages with the helper, meaning he is actively barking at him, the handler will give a few light pops on the pinch at the same time the helper is agitating the dog . The idea is.... the dog will associate the little discomfort in his neck with the bad guy. Every time he sees the helper, he feels this, which makes the dog a little....for the lack of a better term.... "angry".


I work with people all the time who have accidentally done this with their dogs on walks when they react to another dog. They don't know how to give a sufficient correction, so, they end up agitating the dog with the pinch while their dog's attention is on the other dog. Same scene plays out. Their dog sees a strange dog and they get the pain in the neck. Result is a serious case of dog aggression.

You have to know how to use the pinch before you put the dog in situations where they are feeling it but not understanding it as a correction..

As for pulling. The pinch is not for preventing pulling. It is something you use to TEACH the dog how to walk on leash. Just putting it on and walking with them, ends up creating problems like what I just talked about.


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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-09-2012, 02:11 PM
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Over-using it for corrections just means the correction wasn't sufficient in the first place and the handler is just nagging the dog. So far I haven't had a dog that is so crazy he won't respond to the correct level of prong correction. I don't think I could train or live with a dog that *has* to have a high level e-collar stim for training or control (personally I am not a fan of e-collars but not because I think they are abusive or anything like that). The prong has lots of uses in many contexts and of course must always be used with the individual dog in mind. A firm yet fair correction for Nikon would make a softer dog like my Coke cower. For regular leash walking, the prong collar is not walking my dog *I* am walking my dog and thus if I feel the dog needs a correction from the collar then *I* give him a correction, I don't let it tighten, nag at the dog, or "self-correct".
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-09-2012, 03:40 PM
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I use it for corrections, in protection, AND to build intensity for the dumbell. When she is sitting next me me, after I throw my dumbell, I pop the leah forward as I give the loud command.. makes her butt get up and move without killing her spirit and desire to get it.

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-09-2012, 03:47 PM
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I don't know anything about schutzhund, but we have used a prong on our dogs for 10 years now. One reason is for pulling on walks, although now our new dog is pretty well trained and she usually responds to verbal commands. We live in a populated, urban area, and never know what unexpected thing might cause the dog to lunge or chase (skateboarders, squirrels, cats, motorcycles) or simply wants to go home right away (when she pulls). She has a high prey drive, so it's good to have that extra control. Our trainer uses prongs for training (healing, down and down stays), the effectiveness of using them all depends on the strength of your "pop" which most people are weak on - that's when the trainer's evaluation and examples are helpful.

The only time a prong or any leash for that matter has caused aggression is when our dogs meets a strange, new dog and the leash makes them feel uncomfortable.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-12-2012, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretchen View Post
I don't know anything about schutzhund, but we have used a prong on our dogs for 10 years now. One reason is for pulling on walks, although now our new dog is pretty well trained and she usually responds to verbal commands. We live in a populated, urban area, and never know what unexpected thing might cause the dog to lunge or chase (skateboarders, squirrels, cats, motorcycles) or simply wants to go home right away (when she pulls). She has a high prey drive, so it's good to have that extra control. Our trainer uses prongs for training (healing, down and down stays), the effectiveness of using them all depends on the strength of your "pop" which most people are weak on - that's when the trainer's evaluation and examples are helpful.

The only time a prong or any leash for that matter has caused aggression is when our dogs meets a strange, new dog and the leash makes them feel uncomfortable.
It is the high prey drive which allows you to have more control regardless of the leash/collar... You can fight their drives, or use them :-)

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