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post #1 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-08-2012, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
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completely scared off

the pup and i went to visit/watch training at a local club yesterday and we saw...

constant, HARD jerking on prongs,
yelling,
kicking,
pulling ears,
yelping from shock collars,
etc.

i just finished reading sheila booth's purely positive training and needless to say what we saw was horrible. most of this was done by the director of the club during the obidience stuff and she wonders why one of her four dogs pulled, twisted, fought and would not sit as they were about to begin bite work. i understand that this is "old school" training and these dogs need to be tough, but i won't be going back to this club. **removed by Admin**... is this training typical at a lot of the smaller clubs? am i just naive? i have no experience training schutzhund but was very interested until yesterday. we might have to find a new sport...
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post #2 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-08-2012, 08:26 AM
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That's too bad. Maybe there's another club nearby.
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post #3 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-08-2012, 08:29 AM
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If you're very interested don't let one person/one bad experience make up your mind...
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post #4 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-08-2012, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
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just to clarify...

i am not bashing this clubs methods. to each his own. i just don't want to train my pup this way. i don't plan on him doing police work, etc. just trying to find something fun for us to do together.
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post #5 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-08-2012, 08:45 AM
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I have no experience in Schutzhund training, but I did observe some of it at a place in Michigan. It was nothing like you have described. The dogs seemed to be having a positive experience. I wouldn't give up on it, just keep looking for a club that is compatible with your views on dog training.

My daughter had a foster pup for a year, and we went to a few different places before we found one that was a good match for us for obedience classes.
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post #6 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-08-2012, 08:50 AM
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Not all Schutzhund trainers use those methods! Keep looking for a club that fits with you! My trainer does not..in fact...she'll ask you to leave and not come back if she sees you abusing your dog.




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post #7 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-08-2012, 09:00 AM
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Did you ask why they were doing certain things?
Sometimes clubs won't do their "normal" training when guests are present.

I've seen most of what you described in a normal day of training, except the kicking isn't the norm.
I don't agree with much of it, and won't subject my dog to techniques that are not fair. But to a casual observer the training we do may seem harsh. I'm not upholding the club or their training techniques, but understanding/asking questions may help you to see the whys/whatfor's and then judge whether it was over the top.
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post #8 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-08-2012, 10:17 AM
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I would check out some other clubs. Don't be afraid to ask questions and chat with people. It may give a new light on things being done. I have never seen kicking but have seen the other stuff. We all try to be fair to our dogs, some people just train different than others, doesn't mean it is right or wrong. Just different than the you/me/others would want to train. Sometimes asking questions clears up some confusion about certain things!

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post #9 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-08-2012, 10:25 AM
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That's to bad. When I went to visit our local PSA club I saw a lot of happy, willing dogs. I did see some prongs, but no corrections harder than what I've delivered in our "95% positive" obedience class. One dog was wearing an e-collar for some work at a distance from the handler, but again the dog was happy and engaged. I never knew if they used the e-collar or not.

I will say that if you're set on using 100% positive training, Schutzhund may not be the sport for you. Part of the protection aspect involves putting the dogs in stressful situations.


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post #10 of 81 (permalink) Old 03-08-2012, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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corrections are fine, stress is fine...

but this was beat the dog down until he does what you want (in the obedience not bite work) and from my perspective it wasn't working. the other members seemed a bit more laid back and more acceptable style. the problem was this was the director of the club doing these things...
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