Training the Send Away and Retrieves - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-01-2011, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Training the Send Away and Retrieves

How do you SchH folk teach the send away? I know how I train the go out for AKC Utility (which is basically the same exercise)using targets but would I use the same method for the send away? (Don't see why not).

I do think I might use different commands as SchH is a turn and down and the handler goes back and picks up the dog. AKC is a turn and sit and then direct to a jump. In either venue it is just points off if the dog does not down or sit.

Second question: Commands for retreiving. One command for the jump and one command for the retreive in SchH. (Ony one command for the entire exercise in AKC.) In AKC I use "take it" two words so cannot use in SchH.

I though about using "take" for the jump portion and then "come" for the retreive portion. But I think that would be considered a recall. This weekend I just said "Jump" and then "take". Havoc could care less what word I use he was going for the dumbbell and knew the drill.

I have worked him up to 36". The meter jump is 39.4 inches correct?

I am hoping to train with the DVG club this weekend if they train. There is a USA trial in Kansas City that many of them are going to so they may not train.

Kathy

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-01-2011, 12:17 PM
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I think the vast majority teach the send out with a target, like a toy sitting on an object or hanging the end of the field. Most people I know who do it this way rarely, if ever, platz the dog. I think it looks better to have a dog run out straight at pull speed and platz slow or need a second command than a dog that runs out not very fast, looks confused, stops, and/or anticipates the platz too soon. My dog is hypothetically trialing in 1.5 weeks and has yet to do the platz at the end, though if there's a tube at the end he will platz on it on his own, but I haven't platz'd him in front of it yet (granted we only just started working the send out after being talked into entering the trial).

Given the other thread on the new rules and what words and languages are allowed, if you have to change up some commands I'd do yourself a favor and just used the common ones that most people use, which would be "hop" for the jump/a-frame and "bring" as the dog goes over, or on the flat retrieve.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-01-2011, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayos and Havoc View Post
How do you SchH folk teach the send away? I know how I train the go out for AKC Utility (which is basically the same exercise)using targets but would I use the same method for the send away? (Don't see why not).
I train the send out with a send out post: A two or three foot tall metal post with a 90 degree arm (like an upside-down "L"). Hang a tug or ball on the post, and send the dog to the tug. I have seen some people try a touch-type target, but the problem they are encoutering with that is that the send out has to be fast, and in drive, and the ball or tug kicks the dog into drive. I have not seen an AKC/CKC send out yet, but in SchH the dog is running down the whole lenght of the field, so you need something that the dog will really really really want to run full speed to get.

Quote:
I do think I might use different commands as SchH is a turn and down and the handler goes back and picks up the dog. AKC is a turn and sit and then direct to a jump. In either venue it is just points off if the dog does not down or sit.
It's not supposed to be a turn and down, just an instant down, though most dogs will turn to look at the handler when the down command is given. I have not seen the dogs that turn to look penalized - not sure if at higher levels of competition it would be penalized or not.

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Second question: Commands for retreiving. One command for the jump and one command for the retreive in SchH. (Ony one command for the entire exercise in AKC.) In AKC I use "take it" two words so cannot use in SchH.

I though about using "take" for the jump portion and then "come" for the retreive portion. But I think that would be considered a recall. This weekend I just said "Jump" and then "take". Havoc could care less what word I use he was going for the dumbbell and knew the drill.
Most people use "Bring" for the retrieves, and "Hop" (or the German, "hup" for going over the jump and the A-frame). You send the dog over the Jump/A-frame and you give the retrieve command just as they clear the obstacle. I'm sure any words you use will be fine, as long as you are consitent, i.e: Use "Take" on the flat retrieve, use "Over" (or whatever command you choose) over the jump AND the A-frame, and give the "Take" command as the dog clears the jump or the A-frame.

Quote:
I have worked him up to 36". The meter jump is 39.4 inches correct?
That's right, you're almost there! Make sure Havoc is comfortable jumping solid jumps where he can't see what is on the other side.

Have fun on the weekend!

Lucia


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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-01-2011, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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I have been using my AKC high jump which is solid. It only goes to 36 inches tho so I am going to put it up on bricks.

Kathy

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-01-2011, 02:04 PM
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I am teaching the send out by Ivan's method. The main gist is that, whether they see it or nit, there is always a reward at the end of the fields long-axis.

The retrieve I am working using Lou Jollyman's clicker retrieve (schutzhund-training.com) and "semi" Susan Salo method to teach the jumps.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-01-2011, 02:15 PM
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I actually start my send outs the same way I taught them in AKC. I use a target with food in a building and teach them to mark the target. Eventually I move to the field with a toy on either a hanging tree or a ball holder a friend made (easier to travel with). I start near the toy/target (which is almost to the end of the field), tell the dog to "mark" using the left hand as a signal, then say "go out"/signal with my right hand/arm. I slowly work my way down the field until the dog is dong full field send outs. Then I add in control/some heeling. I also tend to pattern the send out with the retrieves so at first I will do my retrieves, then down my dog, put the ball out and do the send out. Then I will put the ball out, do the retrieves, build the dog up, "mark"/left hand signal, do send out. Then I add in heeling again. Then I will put the ball out before coming onto the field, do my retrieves, etc. Once I add the down, I go all the way down towards the end of the field with the dog on a long line and add the down. When I put the down into the exercise the toy will not be there that day. Of course at first my dog is on a long line so they can't make a huge mistake.

In 20 years I have never seen a dog that turned and looked at the handler on the send out penalized as long as the down was fast. I am talking club, regional, national and world level competition.

I have used "take-it" through 3 dogs and have never had a judge say a thing about it even at the regional level. I run the words together. Where I will probably get knocked at some point is I tend to use "bring" over the jumps. Not sure why. So, "jump, bring". My guys aren't going to care so I could just say the "take-it" again. Just remember that the retrieve command over the jump/wall must be said as the dog is going over the obstacle.

Lisa Clark

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-01-2011, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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Yep I am working on the timing over the jump.

Lisa, you train the AKC go-out about the same way I do and back chain like I do. I also teach it a lot longer than needed for competition. So I think I can get this reliable pretty quickly. Havoc will haul butt to the 'target box area' whether it is there or not. I always reward with something. Food, toy or praise.

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-01-2011, 03:06 PM
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I have had very good teachers over the last 28 years. I take what I learn from the AKC people and then change it a bit to fit SchH, my dogs and myself.

Lisa Clark

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-01-2011, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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Good advice!

Kathy

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-01-2011, 09:00 PM
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Just something to think about - it may depend on the judge re: the commands used. I was told by an SV judge at our last trial that the command I used for the retrieve was not correct and I should stick to bring or fetch. Usually I use "bring" but I said "get" during the trial LOL. So now I play it safe and stick to the good ol' trusted ones.

PS: Have fun this weekend if you end up training!

Last edited by Northern GSDs; 11-01-2011 at 09:03 PM.
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