"HIER!" & "Vorsitzen" Problem - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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"HIER!" & "Vorsitzen" Problem

Meanwhile I have given up to a club because I figured as long as we stay in Germany I am better off myself and actually get further in the training as I do with a trainer that is so stuck in the old-fashioned methods that he screws up more than doing any good.


Anyhow, I have a problem with the HIER and most of the times I get better results from all the advise that I get on here than in the clubs so I am looking forward to all your responses. She listens to the re-call and she will sit in front of me but I can't get her to sit close in front of me, you know how she's supposed to do.

So far I've been working on Platz, from the distance because she was going through the phase where she took the tug or ball or any other toy and simply ran off and I've been mainly working on that.


She knows the "Grundstellung" and she knows that she has to sit in front of me but somehow she doesn't get close enough. I've tried to let her run into me or through my legs but that didn't work all that well all by myself or maybe I have to work harder and what comes after she is running through my legs? What is the next step?
Has anyone a video they can share?
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 04:38 PM
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I work the recall for speed with the toy. I start with my feet spread wide and hang a toy on a rope so it hangs a little above my knees, so he can see it. I am holding the toy at this stage so he will go through and tug the toy behind me, but he can't run off with it. Or I will be playing the two-toy game and throw in the recall between the legs once in a while. Later, I call the dog with my legs together, as in the trial, but I spread them so he can see the toy before he gets to me. He comes to expect the toy from me that way, even if he can't see it.

I work the front sit from 1 step away from me. In the beginning usually for food, from both hands in front (centered). Don't lean over the dog; lean back. Then progress to spitting the food from your mouth to his with your hands at your sides (he must get close for this or he will not get the food). When you are ready, tuck the toy under your chin and call him to front (don't let him jump up to get it). Take the toy from your throat to give it to him at first. Later you can probably just raise your chin to release the toy to him.

After a while you can put it together sometimes. Stand with your legs together, call him, and when he gets close put the toy at your chin. Occasionally throw in the finish. Keep rewarding between the legs to keep him motivated, and from the chin for the front sit, to keep things in balance. It always takes a little fiddling to get it to work, but that is the process I use.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the advise. I will see how much I can use it. She is very toy and especially ball/kong- driven. When I started using the ball for the heeling she would always try to jump up until she realized that she doesn't get it until she heels nicely.

Quote:
Occasionally throw in the finish. Keep rewarding between the legs to keep him motivated, and from the chin for the front sit, to keep things in balance. It always takes a little fiddling to get it to work, but that is the process I use.
Yeah, we all have our different styles and will adjust it to what we need. So far I have been doing much better with the advise I received on here and just used what I needed and put it together.

I can't really explain how I am doing it, its pretty much instinctively... if that makes sense.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 06:23 PM
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I had the same problem. Bison knew the recall command, but wasn't sitting close enough. What worked for me is holding a piece food on my tummy where I would want his nose to line up. If he reaches for the food then mark (I used a clicker) and release the food. If he didn't reach for the food, then I took a step back and he naturally moved forward. After he was used to that, then I used just my hand and pointed to the spot on my tummy that I wanted him to line up with. Then when he was in a good position, I would click and treat. I am currently at the tail end of phasing out having my hand on my tummy. Through the whole process, he gets no reward for being too far away. At some point, he understands that being far away doesn't earn him a treat and he moves forward to get the treat.

I also use a tug on my tummy, but I wouldn't recommend that unless you know the dog won't make a grab for it

Amy
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 09:52 PM
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I've done the front sit a couple of different ways.

The older dogs I did sort of like what Amy was saying. Although I would treat at my tummy while walking backwards, so my dogs had to keep reaching in to get the treats and the dog had to keep moving into me. I would also bend forward a little sort of making my tummy target further away from the dog and then I would have them sit while I was bent forward and they were eating from the lure in my hand. And then when I stood up, they were good and close.

The other thing we did was a game with Tag. I would throw a piece of food between my legs, Tag would run to go grab it and I would be turning around and moving away, then I would call Tag, and he would run back towards me and I would throw a piece of food between my legs. It was sort of like wind sprints between my legs. Then after he got that concept in a couple of sessions I would start closing my legs and making sort of a small hoop with them that he had to go through. Then I would close my legs and have the food reward in my hand and as he was running to me I would stand straight legs together and pull my hand up and lure him right into the sit.

Another things we did was a backwards movement and pull him into a sit, restart backwards movement, drop him into a down, backwards then sit. Something about moving backwards and keeping them moving into you really just seemed to help alot.

You may also need to look at *how* Indra sits. If she learned to rock back into a sit, instead of to tuck up her rear into a sit...she may be in good position until she goes to sit and then she rocks back off of you into her sit. If thats the case, you either need to reteach the way she sits, or teach her to compensate for the rock back. Generally my dogs that rock back into their sits will bump a little on their recall because to maintain a close sit, they almost have to come in too close so they can have room to rock back into their sit and be where I want them.

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-19-2010, 10:08 PM
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I'm so boring,lol I taught Zoe to sit right in front of me by using food at my tunny too. She has to sit right there to reach it and it has worked just fine. Mind you we don't do schutz, conformation, agility, or any other sport this is just for fun, but having the food on me makes her sit right at me
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 02:36 AM Thread Starter
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As for the food in my tummy that works fine for Yukon and Zenzy but not so much for Indra. I will try the backwards moving and the running through my legs more.

And guess what I make her rock away from me because if she doesn't get close to me I make a step forward and don't even notice it.

I asked my dad to look at me because I have this problem and for the first time he did. He told me that I need to back up more and actually do what JKlatsky suggested:
Quote:
Another things we did was a backwards movement and pull him into a sit, restart backwards movement, drop him into a down, backwards then sit. Something about moving backwards and keeping them moving into you really just seemed to help alot.
Dad said that I drive her into the rocking because I always adjust to her instead of making her adjust to me. I had the same problem with Yukon. If he sat cricket I would correct myself instead of correcting the dog. That is something I really have to work on especially since I sometimes don't even notice.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 09-20-2010, 05:33 PM
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