What age for a formal " hier" - German Shepherd Dog Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-30-2010, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,396
Send a message via AIM to VaBeachFamily Send a message via Yahoo to VaBeachFamily
What age for a formal " hier"

Ok, so I have been working with Cullen every day for at least 10 minutes at a time, and... we are having some issues!!!!!


Tracking - He used to be enthusiastic, he would hit every step, food or not, he only ate half of it, and we FINALLY got him to want the toy at the end.. for the last two weeks.. tracking to him is something he pretends he knows nothing about. he starts a step or two, and then loses interest, or he wants to skip a few steps at a time, gets to the end, and wants nothing to do with the toy.. we have tried:
Not feeding for up to a full day before training
kicking the toy, making happy sounds
Trainer is convinced it's the ants, but we have done some tracking on our own, no bugs at all, same results.

Obedience -

For food, he will sit and platz, he will " free" for the ball on a string or something similar, and is all about the play. He will NOT HEIR. At all. he will trot towards me a little, then turn sideways and sit and look around. If I grab the collar, or try to use the leash between the legs with the trainer behind me helping direct him, he just pulls away and ignores... even when I try to get him close with the help of physical direction, he just turns his body sideways to sit. Sitz and Platz have become a task now also, we can "cap the drive" and then give a command and he stops and stands there and stares at the toy, but it takes repeated commands...

Protection - NO ISSUES at all. The last 4 weeks, he has been EXCELLENT in protection, is now on a sleeve, and the only thing that he DOESNT do like the others is when he " wins" the tug or sleeve, he doesn't prance around with it, he just wants to show me ( kinda like.. when we play fetch, he bring it, but won't give the ball, and then if sitting, will put his head between my feet and drop it?)

Is there something wrong with him? Is this a stage in puppyhood that is common? Or is he lacking what it takes?

I am also having some concerns with his walking... going to try to get a video, concerned about hips...

anything people? lol.. he's starting to make me feel like I am wasting my time.

~Kristi in Virginia Beach
Mommy to my 8 year old son... and

~ Cullen Vom Sandstranden, Purebred GSD, Black/Red Male : 12/16/09

~ Panzer Vom Sandstranden, Purebred GSD, Sable Female : 11/29/10

~ Gizmo , Amstaff, Brindle/White Female : 5/5/2000
VaBeachFamily is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-30-2010, 09:01 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jeff. County, NY
Posts: 8,989
Quote:
Tracking - He used to be enthusiastic, he would hit every step, food or not, he only ate half of it, and we FINALLY got him to want the toy at the end.. for the last two weeks.. tracking to him is something he pretends he knows nothing about. he starts a step or two, and then loses interest, or he wants to skip a few steps at a time, gets to the end, and wants nothing to do with the toy.. we have tried:
Not feeding for up to a full day before training
kicking the toy, making happy sounds
Trainer is convinced it's the ants, but we have done some tracking on our own, no bugs at all, same results.
How many times do you track per week?
Maybe all he needs is a break.

How old is Cullen again?

Indra is being worked in Schutzhund once a week and thats it.
Other than that we do Clickertraining on almost a daily basis but I differ the training each day to keep her interested. One day the nosetouch, the other day platz, than the pawtouch, heeling, re-call.

Just keep it fun for the dog. Don't overdo it. I know it's hard and so exciting but keep in mind that your dog can get tired from too much routine.

Last edited by Mrs.K; 07-30-2010 at 09:04 PM.
Mrs.K is offline  
post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-30-2010, 09:02 PM
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 27,268
Take a break w/ tracking. Breaks are good. We sometimes track three days in a row, then none for about 4 or 5.
You need to make obedience happy exciting time. He is bored from the sounds of it. He is having some brain burps, common for his age. I would just work on your bond and don't push him for a week or two. Take him on the training field and play tug, then bring him off after about 5 minutes. Put him up, and personally, I wouldn't do protection that day, either.

Then go back a step in where you were previously, and begin again.
This goes for tracking, too. I found that trying to rush the dog just doesn't work, especially for males.
Is he going thru a bout of Pano?

Jane~
Kept by
Gambit zu Treuen Handen

Guinness auf der Marquis...Karlo son!

Always in my heart
Karlo aka Gideon vom Wildhaus
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
3.02.09~12.03.18
Kacie
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
7.21.05-5.01.15
Onyx
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
11.08.06-9.28.18
onyx'girl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-30-2010, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,396
Send a message via AIM to VaBeachFamily Send a message via Yahoo to VaBeachFamily
Mrs K - We track with the group Saturdays, and usually only about 1-2 times a week otherwise... sometimes once, sometimes twice.. hard to find a place to do it around here.

Jane - A bout of what? I am feelling kinda dumb at the moment. We have training tomorrow, and tonight was such a bummer during our time. We have tried EVERYTHING.. I get out there and act like a complete dummy to get him excited, and the last week or two he is JUST not interested... I thought it was the heat, but the last few days here, it's been in the 70s in the evenings when we "hang out"

~Kristi in Virginia Beach
Mommy to my 8 year old son... and

~ Cullen Vom Sandstranden, Purebred GSD, Black/Red Male : 12/16/09

~ Panzer Vom Sandstranden, Purebred GSD, Sable Female : 11/29/10

~ Gizmo , Amstaff, Brindle/White Female : 5/5/2000
VaBeachFamily is offline  
post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-30-2010, 09:05 PM
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 19,490
Have you done restrained recalls? It sounds like you need to make the HIER more positive and less "get your butt here now!!" if you know what I mean. Maybe he's giving you calming signals because you seem frustrated? If he won't sit straight then don't do that yet. Get him coming really fast and happy every time. Either toss the toy through your legs or you turn off to the side at the last second (so he's always coming in straight and fast and not altering his course). What have you done to work the sit in front position alone, not paired with the recall? When Nikon was a bitty puppy he didn't like coming in real close so I trained it by holding a bunch of food at my crotch and skipping backwards while basically feeding him. Even now after a BH I still will flip my body around while he's heeling and do several paces with him prancing in front of me with his face on my abdomen. I don't care if he's literally pushing into me during training (which he is).

Edited to add: Even with a dog getting ready to trial I still rarely have the dog doing lots of formal sits and finishes. Most of the time I just want him coming straight and fast and THAT is what I reward. With a puppy you need to make sure you are rewarding the things that are new to him. He sees it as a chain of behaviors so if he comes in fast and straight but you are planning to have him sit, screw the sit and reward the recall. Don't put them together until he can do both of them really well as separate behaviors. Otherwise if he comes in nicely but sits crooked and you don't reward b/c of the crooked sit, you've lost the opportunity to reward the nice recall.

I also agree with Jane. If *you* are really frustrated, don't even get him out. He will pick up on that and it will make things a negative experience for him. He is really young yet right? There's no rush. At this point there's more potential to do damage than have an advantage doing so much training so young. In the group I train with, if a puppy acts like this then we put it up or just take it out for a few minutes of fast, happy PLAY to make positive associations with the work and the environment.

Maybe you are working him too often and too long? "At least ten minutes" seems like a lot for a pup. My dog is 22 months and often a training session is just going out and doing the three retrieves, which takes maybe 2 minutes total. If I'm satisfied, then we reward play and that's it. Tonight we did maybe 3 minutes of some heeling I've been working on and I liked what I saw so that was it. He had a lot more energy to burn so after that I had him run blinds with me throwing the toy for fetch as his reward for doing the blind search. That was more exercise than training since he already knows the blind search and follows my directions (I command it from weird angles or in random orders).

Last edited by Liesje; 07-30-2010 at 09:14 PM.
Liesje is offline  
post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-30-2010, 09:08 PM
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 27,268
Panosteitis
very common in GSD's it is a type of growing pains affecting the long bones.

Jane~
Kept by
Gambit zu Treuen Handen

Guinness auf der Marquis...Karlo son!

Always in my heart
Karlo aka Gideon vom Wildhaus
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
3.02.09~12.03.18
Kacie
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
7.21.05-5.01.15
Onyx
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
11.08.06-9.28.18

Last edited by onyx'girl; 07-30-2010 at 09:10 PM.
onyx'girl is offline  
post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-30-2010, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,396
Send a message via AIM to VaBeachFamily Send a message via Yahoo to VaBeachFamily
Jane.. i looked PANO up... guess he's gonna have to make an appt at the vet.. if they were to diagnose it, should he automatically be fixed? different opinions on different sites..

Lies... our trainer is saying the same thing ... just put him up... and then next time, it;s just play and starting over again. The heir is usually accompanied by a favorite toy or food at waist level, but unless it's jumping on me to get the toy... he's just not into it.. Tried the skipping backwards, and he waits for me to stop, i get high pitched, excited, and nothing works.. when I stop, he will look at me a minute, and no matter what I say, he will saunter over and attempt to get whatever I have.. ALL he wants to do is chase the ball or play tug...

~Kristi in Virginia Beach
Mommy to my 8 year old son... and

~ Cullen Vom Sandstranden, Purebred GSD, Black/Red Male : 12/16/09

~ Panzer Vom Sandstranden, Purebred GSD, Sable Female : 11/29/10

~ Gizmo , Amstaff, Brindle/White Female : 5/5/2000
VaBeachFamily is offline  
post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-30-2010, 09:17 PM
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 19,490
By skipping backwards I mean with the dog already pushing his nose at your crotch/abdomen. Again, I'd work on getting him comfortable in this position before adding it to the recall. So, I get some yummy food and start feeding my dog at my crotch, and then I skip backwards and just continue feeding him as long as he stays right there and is straight with me. I don't wait to stop, or call him into this position, just feeding him for wanting to be there and stay there as I move. Waist level might be too high, keep the rewards where he's actually eating them or biting at them. You're not looking for eye contact here - that's another behavior - just the position.

I was doing this just last night with Nikon, polishing swinging from front to finish to front to finish. The dog needs to be really comfortable being with you in these positions before adding in formal behaviors and commands.

Last edited by Liesje; 07-30-2010 at 09:21 PM.
Liesje is offline  
post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-30-2010, 09:19 PM
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 27,268
Pano just has to work itself out...nothing the vet can do. I gave vitamin C(start at 500mg up to 2000mg daily over a weeks time/each meal-1000mg a meal- to reduce inflammation when my dogs had it.
They don't need pain meds for it, IMO so they will self limit their exercise.
He is old enough to get prelims done, which I recommend! Especially if he is doing sportwork.

Jane~
Kept by
Gambit zu Treuen Handen

Guinness auf der Marquis...Karlo son!

Always in my heart
Karlo aka Gideon vom Wildhaus
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
3.02.09~12.03.18
Kacie
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
7.21.05-5.01.15
Onyx
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
11.08.06-9.28.18
onyx'girl is offline  
post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-30-2010, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,396
Send a message via AIM to VaBeachFamily Send a message via Yahoo to VaBeachFamily
LOL.. maybe I can send him to you? LOL. I will try to get someone to video tape it... because he is reluctant and will NOT stand, sit, come, etc right in front of me... and ESPECIALLY not straight..

OH and... Jane... everywhere seems to say Pano hits the front legs? All of his issues are in the rear

~Kristi in Virginia Beach
Mommy to my 8 year old son... and

~ Cullen Vom Sandstranden, Purebred GSD, Black/Red Male : 12/16/09

~ Panzer Vom Sandstranden, Purebred GSD, Sable Female : 11/29/10

~ Gizmo , Amstaff, Brindle/White Female : 5/5/2000
VaBeachFamily is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Perfecting the "hier"? Tulip How do I (teach my dog to)? 14 07-11-2014 01:21 PM
Formal Training at the age of 11 months after a bite incident [email protected] Training Theory & Methods 7 12-22-2012 01:05 AM
"Hier" HarleyTheGSD Training Theory & Methods 20 07-10-2012 07:43 PM
"HIER!" & "Vorsitzen" Problem Mrs.K Schutzhund/IPO Training 7 09-20-2010 05:33 PM
OK! I have only been a memeber for 2 Days..... So here is our formal "HELLO!" GSD MOM Pictures! Pictures! Pictures! 13 04-23-2010 09:23 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome