When to teach the "out" - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-22-2009, 12:53 AM Thread Starter
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When to teach the "out"

When do you think is the right time to start teaching the dog to out?

Anyone here teach the "out" right off the bat like Balabanov outlined in the Game? Advantage to teaching the "out" first? Disadvantage?
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-22-2009, 01:15 AM
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Re: When to teach the "out"

what is 'out'? Is it like 'get outside'?
I have not heard of that one...do tell

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-22-2009, 01:44 AM
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Re: When to teach the "out"

Outing is the same as "let go."

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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-22-2009, 03:05 AM
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Re: When to teach the "out"

I started with 'aus' as soon as he was home. I actually didn't wait for that one.

Stark can have a piece of steak in his mouth now and with drop it with one command. This is one command he excels at all the time.. lol.

I taught it by trading whatever he had for something he wanted more (treats, another toy, etc..), it seemed to work quickly and effectively for us.

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-22-2009, 03:33 AM
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Re: When to teach the "out"

I start every single time I have them give up or exchange a toy right from the git go... It makes it part of their natural behavior to give up whatever they have, be it a toy, food, or the bad guy's arm.

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-22-2009, 09:33 AM
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Re: When to teach the "out"

I start naming the behavior pretty early on...Although one thing I learned that I will caution on (although depending on the different methods, this may not be true for everyone) With the way I taught the dumbbell, I do not like to out a toy from my dog in the front when we play fetch. I also do not like to do a 2 ball out either.

We created a problem in my first dog with the dumbbell because every time he would bring something back to me, he would drop it about 2 feet out for me to either throw it again or produce another ball. Great behavior for a pet that you want to play fetch with, caused a lot of conflict when we had to teach the front hold with the dumbbell.

I will out with tugs like Balabanov does, because then the game can start right away again and anticipating the out doesn't really cause too many problems in that setting like it does with the retrieve (at least for me).

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-22-2009, 09:35 AM
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Re: When to teach the "out"

Outing off of a toy held by the handler is different than outing off the helper. The dog is...or maybe should be is a better way to put it....in a different frame of mind when he is biting the helper. That's not saying people can't familiarize the dog with the command but if the dog outs as easily off the helper as he does when he is playing, something is not being done correctly.
The dog has to be biting well, know how to fight back against the threats and aggression from the helper with his bite and bark and then the out training can start.


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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-22-2009, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: When to teach the "out"

Quote:
Originally Posted By: VandalOuting off of a toy held by the handler is different than outing off the helper. The dog is...or maybe should be is a better way to put it....in a different frame of mind when he is biting the helper.
Anne,

So you don't see any harm in teaching puppy to "out" the toy early on? Right now with Ike I am leaving all the backtie/rag work to the helpers at our club. Of course at training once he wins the rag we always let him carry it back to the car and we don't ask him to out it. We just wait until he drops the rag. Now when I play with him at home I use the two ball method to get the first toy back. But I think the two ball game is a little confusing for Ike. Sometime he will play it "correctly" and other time he will not either not want to engage the second toy (preferring to play with the one he already has) or try to stuff two balls in his mouth.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-22-2009, 11:30 AM
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Re: When to teach the "out"

Quote:
Quote:So you don't see any harm in teaching puppy to "out" the toy early on?
No, because it is different. Of course, as with everything, how much you do of something matters. Moderation is the key .


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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-22-2009, 11:43 AM
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Re: When to teach the "out"

Outing a toy and outing the sleeve are very different things due to the dog being in a completely different drive and mindset, as Anne mentioned.

However I do think that teaching out early on does give the handler a bit of a leg up later when it comes to outing the sleeve because the dog has a positive association with outing, not a negative one filled with conflict.

I start making word association with the out command with young pups every time we trade. And I do use methods like in Balabanov's "Game" later in obedience training and play to reinforce the out command. But there is still some teaching of the out needed in protection. The understanding of the command and compliance to it doesn't typically globalize to the protection field without additional work.

I don't particularly like playing two-ball, and on the rare occasion I do I don't use the out command much, if at all, to get the dog to release the first ball so he can go for the second. When I do use the out command, it is almost always when my hands are on the object and have been for several seconds, not when the dog is just freely carrying the ball running back to me or as soon as my hands touch it.

Reason is I do not want to condition my dog to automatically drop whatever he is carrying on his way back to me, or right in front of me, or anticipate me always commanding him to drop it when he gets to me or anticipate having to out the second I touch the object. This can create a bad habit, and one that can be particularly problematic in retrieves (especially if teaching a motivational retrieve) later on. I want the dog to be willing to release whatever he has when I want it, but I also want him to be possessive of what he has and continue to hold it until then.


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