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workingdawgs 11-23-2009 10:23 PM

Schutzhund Box
I am interested in understanding more about using the box when working a young dog in bite work. Can anyone offer information about this technique? Pro's and con's, purpose, potential "screw ups" etc...

VonKromeHaus 11-23-2009 10:36 PM

Re: Schutzhund Box
I'm not sure I understand what "box" you are talking about? Are you talking about "table" work??


workingdawgs 11-23-2009 10:43 PM

Re: Schutzhund Box
I guess so, in the other threads, a box was specified but I imagine it is likely the same theory...

onyx'girl 11-23-2009 10:48 PM

Re: Schutzhund Box
You can see a short youtube video here
scroll down a bit.

workingdawgs 11-23-2009 10:56 PM

Re: Schutzhund Box
I did watch that particular video but I am looking more towards discussion purposes.

I have heard of table training before and if my memory serves me right (which rarely it does lol) table training is used to take away the flight option and promote the fight response in a dog. I am looking for discussion about the merits of box/table training in protection.

cliffson1 11-24-2009 12:07 AM

Re: Schutzhund Box
The concept of "box and "table" are similar. We have both at our club for different purposes.
The box is about a foot and a half off of the ground, it has sides and a back so that the dog can primarily see straight ahead. We use it primarily for the young dogs between 10 months and 14 months to strengthen bark, work the dog out of prey, and strengthen the bite on bisquit. The dog is worked from a distance, through suspicion and encouraged to keep the person at bay with strong barking by slowly increasing critical threshholds until you can give the bite while the dog is barking strong. We especially like this with over the top prey monsters that lock in prey and are difficult barkers. The dog learns through strength he can control the situation of the decoy.
The table on the other hand is a round platform about 4 feet off the ground and has no sides. Usually round with post in middle that has stakeout tie attached. Nate Harves had a similar diagram in last years USA magasine. We usually don't put a dog on the table until it has "graduated from the box.
With the box the handler is standing right beside the dog giving verbal and physical encouragement as he pats his dog slightly as he fires up. On the table the dog is by himself and has to express himself in strength on his own merit. These are general principles but it gives idea of principles.

G-burg 11-24-2009 06:27 AM

Re: Schutzhund Box

Quote:We use it primarily for the young dogs between 10 months and 14 months to strengthen bark, work the dog out of prey, and strengthen the bite on bisquit.
Can you achieve the same w/the 3 sided fence?

cliffson1 11-24-2009 09:02 AM

Re: Schutzhund Box
By the dog being in the box he/she is off the ground and it creates a type of stress that the dog works through(though not hard for any dog with decent nerve), it removes flight and prey drive as options and requires dog to confront challenge in a more nerve perspective as opposed to drive perspective if that makes sense. If dog is on the ground there gives more probanility to thrashing,spinning, and behavoirs of this sort that are not desired.

cliffson1 11-24-2009 09:03 AM

Re: Schutzhund Box
Sorry I had double.

cliffson1 11-25-2009 09:05 AM

Re: Schutzhund Box
One last thing on the box....I am not promoting the box to anyone on the list as probably many would not be effective in using it if they are in Sch clubs. My point is the evolution of the type of "working" dogs we have today is a reflection of nature,(genetics), and nuture,(training methodology). The prey movement in the breed, unbalanced development of drives in the dog; is an analogy to the black and red show strucure, show dogs being all black and red and of a less than agile structure; as examples of the way specialization has taken over the breed. Until both aspects of this equation is addressed the breed will never assume it place again as "consistently" a great working dog. Things like the box and muzzle training which are very effective tools for developing a "good" protection dog have all but been discarded for the extreme perfection of the routine through things like complete prey training which is easier to manage and less stressful on handlers and trainers to execute. These are reasons why you as sport people can "say" that a prey dog can transition to real protection, but if you ask the practitioners of real dogs(police/military trainers) even in Germany, and they will tell you that the GS of today basically isn't equipped to be "consistently" successful today in this vocation. This should concern true stewards of the breed instead of trying to justify this phenomenon.JMO

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