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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-01-2009, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Just a question

I was watching videos of courage test (I think that what it is? I do not do SchH) when the dog is sent from a distance and bites the sleeve. I've noticed that not so many dogs actually run and hit the helper from a close distance without slowing down but many slow down a little or launch themselves from a few meters away.

I have a question about the latter - is it desirable and a proper way? It just occured to me that when the dog is in the air for some time it's easier for a human to divert the attach or move out of the way and then fight the dog who's out of balance then when the dog gets you from a close distance and with force.

Please forgive me if this is a stupid question, I just couldn't help but think about it when looking at different dogs performing.


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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-04-2009, 10:44 PM
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Re: Just a question

The helper is supposed to present the sleeve wile coming with a strong charging attack. The helper shouldn't try to escape the dog that is why the exercise is called the test of courage. Its about the dog not the helper vs dog like the ring sports.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-04-2009, 10:57 PM
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Re: Just a question

The dog should not run and then slow. They should run like mad, be totally committed, and launch at the helper. That is one thing that really disappoints me about a lot of courage tests (well, a lot of things disappoint these days...), when the dog is amped up and charges down like crazy but then slow and basically hops onto the sleeve, grrrr!

The helper is not supposed to move around and try to avoid a bite, if that's what you mean. We did a few of these type bites today with Nikon, putting a little more pressure on him. Helper stood his ground, staring down the dog, ready with the stick. That is more pressure than jumping around or trying to flee, I think.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-04-2009, 11:46 PM
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Re: Just a question

I think it depends on why the dog slows down. If its hesitation, then that kind of ruins the whole point of a courage test. I've been watching videos of dogs whose intent is to knock the helper down, and most of those dogs look like they slow down to position themselves better (sort of like a crouch and then they launch). I could be totally off, but thats what I see.

I think in a real life scenario. A person can avoid the initial attack whether the dog launches or runs straight at them. If the dog doesnt make contact with a launch its not gonna end up anywhere near the threat (watch dogs that lauch themselves miss and they go flying by way out of fighting range), and before the person could even think about fighting back the dog will already be up and balanced coming at them again, lol.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-05-2009, 12:15 AM
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Re: Just a question

In a real life scenario, the dog will not bite a sleeve, he will launch himself direct to the center of the bad guy, that is why PPD dogs are taught to bite in the back and in the chest. And in real life, it is not as easy to divert those attacks as it seems.

Most dogs that slow down, for what I've seen, is lack of commitment, confident, or physical capacity (extreme angulations, by example). Many dogs are taught to launch themselves to the helper, not for the show of it, but because that way the bite is harder, the dog is expecting this prey is going to escape at the last moment and don't want to give it opportunity. Later this prey game becomes a confrontation, but the sequence is already learn by the dog.

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-05-2009, 08:05 AM
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Re: Just a question

There are also dogs that slow down because they have been jammed by bad catches. It isn't always due to a negative in the dog's temperament. Even the toughest dogs, unless totally crazy, will start to slow down if they believe they will be hurt in the catch. Some of the strongest dogs I have known were not fliers, but there was no doubt about their courage, hardness and fighting drive (what has now been replaced by the TSB rating). I have also seen dogs that did not show much power in the over all work, but flew on the long bites. One must always look at the whole picture.

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-09-2009, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Just a question

Thank you everbody for your responses!!! Now its' a little bit more clear for me. I just didn't know the routine so I was confused for the purpose of this test. I didn't expect a helper to flee but maybe move forward or try to get the dog, and also I thought that the launching and flying a few meters towards the helper is pretty and looks scary but just requires a little step to the side and the dog is completely exposed to harm from the human.

Lisa, especially thank you for the clarification because that's what I kind of felt when watching the videos. To me it seemed that dogs that can assess the situation won't fly if they are serious about a fight, they will come very close and will try to restrain a person with the bite. So maybe slowing down is actually a better tactic on the part of the dog and not lack of courage.

Thanks again!!


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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-09-2009, 02:49 PM
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Re: Just a question

Very well said!
Quote:
Originally Posted By: lhczthThere are also dogs that slow down because they have been jammed by bad catches. It isn't always due to a negative in the dog's temperament. Even the toughest dogs, unless totally crazy, will start to slow down if they believe they will be hurt in the catch. Some of the strongest dogs I have known were not fliers, but there was no doubt about their courage, hardness and fighting drive (what has now been replaced by the TSB rating). I have also seen dogs that did not show much power in the over all work, but flew on the long bites. One must always look at the whole picture.

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