Release of a tug? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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Release of a tug?

We haven't started Koch's Schutzhund training yet, but we have a tug we use with her to work on her bites

She is obsessed with it, she literally won't release - ever! I have to get lucky and pull it from her mouth when she relaxes a bit. I can't coax her with treats either.

1) Any good ways I can use to pry her from the tug - working with less value toys? (We are still working on a "release" command, but she has been a bit of a hard head so far)
2) Is using her tug as a reward going to be bad news for down the road in Schutzhund training?

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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 08:46 PM
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Re: Release of a tug?

Stop the game by holding the tug still. The prey is dead if it is still. If you let her continue to tug, in her mind the game is still on. End the game with Koch wanting more. In early training a pup, it doesn't matter if they don't out as the bite is what is encouraged.
I would get into a club though as the very early foundation work is most important and you don't want to have to undo something if it was a wrong technique to start. Purely Positive Training by Sheila Booth is a great book. http://www.amazon.com/Purely-Positiv.../dp/0966302001

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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 08:57 PM
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Re: Release of a tug?

i can say "leave it", "drop it" or "give it here". when i
say "give it here" my hand is extended. i don't know
what's correct for a dog that's going to
be Schutzhund trained.
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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 09:15 PM
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Re: Release of a tug?

Quote:
Quote:Stop the game by holding the tug still. The prey is dead if it is still. If you let her continue to tug, in her mind the game is still on. End the game with Koch wanting more.
I agree with this.


If you do want to work on a nice out, after you "lock up" your arms holding the tug (hold the tug totally still) so the tug is "dead" (no reinforcing reward for the dog) give the "out" (or whatever command you want to use) and <u>as soon as the dog releases</u> , you can reinforce/reward the out with another immediate bite on the tug. The dog then learns that outing means the game goes back on and usually the dog will quickly learn and be eager to out on your command, knowing that another rewarding behaviour (tugging/biting) will result following the out. It's pretty much along the lines of the "without conflict" method for outing.
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 04-08-2009, 03:08 PM
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Re: Release of a tug?

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Nicole L
Quote:
Quote:Stop the game by holding the tug still. The prey is dead if it is still. If you let her continue to tug, in her mind the game is still on. End the game with Koch wanting more.
I agree with this.


If you do want to work on a nice out, after you "lock up" your arms holding the tug (hold the tug totally still) so the tug is "dead" (no reinforcing reward for the dog) give the "out" (or whatever command you want to use) and <u>as soon as the dog releases</u> , you can reinforce/reward the out with another immediate bite on the tug. The dog then learns that outing means the game goes back on and usually the dog will quickly learn and be eager to out on your command, knowing that another rewarding behaviour (tugging/biting) will result following the out. It's pretty much along the lines of the "without conflict" method for outing.
Excellent advice. The only things I would add...

1. Avoid compulsion of any kind when teaching the out regardless of what any other handlers or trainers tell you. With the right type of dog it sets you up for problems down the road - and none of those other people will need to live with your dog. They probably don't even live with their dogs that are kenneled.

2. Have a "start" word or phrase to begin tugging/training in drive games (mine is simply "do you want to play?") and an end word or phrase (mine is "all done"). And you end the game with the toy - not the dog. Again - this sets up problems down the road with the right type of dog.

3. Until you have a solid out and if you want to train and build drive you can "choke the dog off" of the tug by grabbing the collar (fur saver or flat collar) and lifting her front feet slightly off of the ground. She will let go, and you can contunue on. Be aware though that this builds drive and will amp her up.

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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 10:34 AM
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Re: Release of a tug?

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Nicole L
Quote:
Quote:Stop the game by holding the tug still. The prey is dead if it is still. If you let her continue to tug, in her mind the game is still on. End the game with Koch wanting more.
I agree with this.


If you do want to work on a nice out, after you "lock up" your arms holding the tug (hold the tug totally still) so the tug is "dead" (no reinforcing reward for the dog) give the "out" (or whatever command you want to use) and <u>as soon as the dog releases</u> , you can reinforce/reward the out with another immediate bite on the tug. The dog then learns that outing means the game goes back on and usually the dog will quickly learn and be eager to out on your command, knowing that another rewarding behaviour (tugging/biting) will result following the out. It's pretty much along the lines of the "without conflict" method for outing.
This is exactly what I have done when using his buggy whip/rag...Id stop moving it and then once releasing I would add the Aus command. Now as mentioned here he has no problem letting go as he knows it means Ill move it again and he gets more play time.

I cant believe how much drive/excitement he has for this rag...he will go crazy for it and keeps going to the door where it is kept...Im hoping this is a good sign for his prey drive.
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