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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 12:29 AM
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Re: Confused....

About kenneling your dogs: I hear this a lot. Remember that a lot of the advice you get are from seasoned trainers who are serious about earning top scores at high level competition. Your goals and my goals for our dogs are different. They can still do Shutzhund and earn titles, and even do very well, and still be house pets. If my goals for Falkor where going to the worlds, I would be doing things differently, that's for sure!

But my goals for him and for me is to have fun, so that is my focus. And I do the same as you, there are ball and tug rewards that Keeta goes nuts for, and they only come out at training. Falkor goes nuts for anything, LOL, but as he gets older, I'll find that one or two special thing that he will really turn him on, and save those for training only, other toys are available at other times.

Lucia


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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 12:31 AM
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Re: Confused....

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Nicole L
Quote:
Quote: I always say that dog training is an art, not a science, so lots of fiddling and adjusting as you go along.


PS Lucia - I see a little "Birthday Cake" icon above your avatar! Happy B-day!!!!!!!
Thanks! Tina took me out for lunch!

Lucia


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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 01:39 AM
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Re: Confused....

I went through the same and let me tell you there comes a point where you will have to choose one person to follow unless you want to be pulled in a million different directions and make no progress with your dog. And even if you make wonderful progress with your dog you will always have people question your methods. Such is dog sport.

The German Shepherd's faults are faults of education not nature, for if someone worked with him he would be blissfully happy and most obedient of all dogs. - Max von Stephanitz
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 06:57 AM
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Re: Confused....

Quote:
Quote:let me tell you there comes a point where you will have to choose one person to follow unless you want to be pulled in a million different directions and make no progress with your dog.
Exactly!

If you are new to the sport and have a young dog, it's best to stick with one good person you like and trust, keep the training consistent and build a solid foundation.. too many dogs get screwed up because their handlers flip flop back and forth between and each person is doing something different.. The dog is totally confused and is the handler!

Leesa~

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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 08:32 AM
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Re: Confused....

"The waiting until the dog is a year old is pretty out-dated thinking. "

According to whom? I am curious. True trainers that do it for sport - no. Talking to Pierre and he practices, who won the Worlds in 2007, was vice in 2006 and is a top working judge, that is what he does. He lets the dog grow up, If the dog has it from a genetic aspect, it will be there. Talking to working people that compete at a high level that actually train and title their own dogs (this is a fine point), this is what they do.

When Gabor was training Adie (3-3 Cello, our dog) a few years ago, he got a lot of flak (esp from a show person in the area :-) ) as she was not trained and titled before 2. But, she had better work on the field in the trial (not just in training). Her bitework on a strange field, strange working helper, 95 degrees and a working judge was 98 points.....


"Yet in Schutzhund, there is a risk of doing too much obedience with a young dog at an early age, and thus inhibiting their natural drive and exhuberance, as they are afraid that they will get in trouble if they pull on the line, bark, move away from the handler, etc. . . "

Somewhat correct. There is basic OB that you can do.


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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 11:06 AM
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Re: Confused....

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Smithie86"The waiting until the dog is a year old is pretty out-dated thinking. "

According to whom? I am curious.
LOL, according to what I heard other people say! So not an expert, of course, I'm talking more from the point of view of a beginner trying to bring perspective to another beginner. Like I was saying, there is no right or wrong, but different theories and methodologies, and one can use what one finds best for them.

I think it was at one time widely held and practiced to not even start OB until the dog was older? But then things have changed some, and more people found that starting some basic ob earlier did not cause problems? Just thinking out loud here.

I'm also wondering (and this is just conjecture - not saying that people who do wait until the dog is older do this), that in the "olden" days, OB was more compulsion based, so it WAS better to wait until the dog was older. Again, NOT saying that people today who do this use heavy compulsion in their training, but wondering if that is were the "wait until your dog is a year old" theory comes from.

Lucia


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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 11:22 AM
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Re: Confused....

Lies,

Here's $.02 from another newbie.

The first thing you have to decide is what is your #1 goal for Nikon. That decision will have a great influence on what you do and how you train.

Our #1 goal for Mauser is to be a well behaved, social, family pet that coexists with the pack peacefully.

So, we started off by totally ignoring ALOT of what we were told or read.

We did NOT wait before starting obedience. A dog needs some obedience in order to live in your house with you (and your other dogs). Sure - most of what we did was very basic obedience - Sit, Come, Stay, walk nicely on leash, etc. It was all done use positive motivation.

We do NOT keep him separated from the other dogs. He needed to learn right from the start to live in a pack - that's the way we live here. If that makes for lower scores in Schutzhund, oh well. The scores are not what we live with every day - the dog IS!

We use whatever motivates him the best. He is VERY food driven and only recently has found balls to be fun. He doesn't seem to like to tug with us but tugs like crazy with our trainer.

So - my advice? Decide what your main goal is for him THEN pick the club/trainer/training methods that fit best with his goal.
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 11:44 AM
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Re: Confused....

I have seen poeple work with clickers with pups as young as 8 weeks and get amazing results.

The whole wait to a year thing can be good or bad IMO - much depends on the TD/Helper and HOW they bring out the pups drives - I know that some of mine would have benefitted by waiting and others were not affected by waiting at all.....again, this is more based on the methods used by the trainers than the dog itself, and how you relate to the trianing.

Some pups are into balls from day 1, others are more food motivated...some are so into balls, you have to go to food to keep them under control and learning rather than have them go into overdrive and obsessed with the ball/tug/toy....some pups don't seem to be into balls and then WHAM at 5 or 6 months - they are nuts about balls/toys....and some pups you must marshall every bit of drive to train effectively...only you can decide what your pup's reactions are and what he needs...

You can always learn at least one thing - even if the thing is that you are not going to use method X - from every one you work with IMO - a closed mind and someone who acts as if training is set in stone is someone I would avoid - one of the best trainers/helpers I have known is one who goes to every seminar he can, and always takes away something to incorporate into his reprotraire (sp??) - you should never stop learning!

There is no black and white, written in stone way of training - if there were, we'd all have Schh3 dogs who performed at V levels at every trial! Dogs are animals and have personalities and the key is fitting your ability, the dogs ability and the training into the best experience for you both.

Lee


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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 11:48 AM
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Re: Confused....

Quote:
Quote:There is no black and white, written in stone way of training - if there were, we'd all have Schh3 dogs who performed at V levels at every trial! Dogs are animals and have personalities and the key is fitting your ability, the dogs ability and the training into the best experience for you both.
Excellent point Lee!!

Leesa~

Chaos v. Wildhaus, SchH2, OB3 (HOT) Forever in my heart ~ Bismark v. Wildhaus, SchH1 (HOT) ~ Kougar v. Wolfstraum, IPO 1, CGC (HOT)... Oberon v. Wildhaus, BH (HOT)
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-22-2009, 11:50 AM
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Re: Confused....

Thanks Leesa, and lucky you for having that helper - I know you understand what I am saying!

Lee

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