First-time GSD owners getting dog from bad situation - Page 4 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #31 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-15-2016, 04:34 PM
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BTW...your fiancée looks like a cuddly, koala bear type guy.


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post #32 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-15-2016, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by lindseyloo92 View Post
Ok, well we are going to get her into the vet ASAP. I want good flea medicine, definitely don't want her bringing fleas in to my cats, so I will see how the Frontline Plus does and switch if needed. I was buying out of Walmart, so the selection was not great.

I just ordered her research pedigree from the AKC, and her mother was bred to her grandfather (so mother-father mating) to produce her. Is this normal? I had a super inbred cat once that was probably the stupidest animal I have ever seen.

Dam: julietta de psd dn245307/04 08-11

Sire: Cuba V

The way you have this listed, the sire of the puppy is the father of the dam, so they bred the bitch, Julietta to her father. No this is not condoned. I am not saying it does not happen. It would be a 1-2 breeding. Germany used to allow 2-3 breeding as the closest grand sire on the one side is the great grandsire on the other side. Someone recently told me that it is now 3-3 that would be sharing a great-grandfather.

Think of it this way, for a puppy,
The sire and dam are the first generation so 1,
you can't have a 1-1 breeding because it takes two to tango.
Each of the four grandparents are 2
A 1-2 breeding is father/daughter, Mother/son.
each of the 8 great-grandparents are 3 and so forth.

sister/brother breeding would be 2-2 one each of the parents, because the sister and the brother would be 1 and the grandparents (of the puppies) 2. Half-brother to half-sister would be 2-2 on just one of the grandparents, but still really close.

When setting type and developing a breed, maybe this type of in-breeding was necessary, maybe. But nowadays, it really is irresponsible.

It does not cause problems in temperament and health, but whatever recessives are there in the lines, are far more likely to show up in the pups.

I know you know this, but I am going to say it anyway: you have the dog, and she is here. The time for questions like this is when the breeder chose to breed. It isn't your dog's fault. And she deserves a good home.

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Last edited by selzer; 06-15-2016 at 04:49 PM.
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post #33 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-15-2016, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by selzer View Post
The way you have this listed, the sire of the puppy is the father of the dam, so they bred the bitch, Julietta to her father. No this is not condoned. I am not saying it does not happen. It would be a 1-2 breeding. Germany used to allow 2-3 breeding as the closest grand sire on the one side is the great grandsire on the other side. Someone recently told me that it is now 3-3 that would be sharing a great-grandfather.

Think of it this way, for a puppy,
The sire and dam are the first generation so 1,
you can't have a 1-1 breeding because it takes two to tango.
Each of the four grandparents are 2
A 1-2 breeding is father/daughter, Mother/son.
each of the 8 great-grandparents are 3 and so forth.

sister/brother breeding would be 2-2 one each of the parents, because the sister and the brother would be 1 and the grandparents (of the puppies) 2. Half-brother to half-sister would be 2-2 on just one of the grandparents, but still really close.

When setting type and developing a breed, maybe this type of in-breeding was necessary, maybe. But nowadays, it really is irresponsible.

It does not cause problems in temperament and health, but whatever recessives are there in the lines, are far more likely to show up in the pups.

I know you know this, but I am going to say it anyway: you have the dog, and she is here. The time for questions like this is when the breeder chose to breed. It isn't your dog's fault. And she deserves a good home.
Of course. This was just my novice question about what to expect from my dog. The cat I mentioned had all kinds of problems, sixth toes, everything, and lots of temperament issues, so I just wanted to see if this is considered a major issue when it happens in GSDs. I am only concerned about the health of Ophelia, we were looking at shelter mixes before we found her, so her lineage isn't important to me in that regard. I am not sure how to research her line and see what kinds of health problems I may need to look for. I'm new to all of this, I never even thought we'd have a dog where I could explore her ancestors like this. My fiance and I are huge genealogy buffs when it comes to our own family trees, so it's actually sort of hilarious that our dog has more pictures available of her ancestors than we do.

I have read some negative words online about the kennel where Ophelia was born, so I am not really surprised that they would do something that is not generally condoned when it comes to breeding.
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post #34 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-15-2016, 09:15 PM
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Open your arms. Start fresh with no preconceptions and then, work from there - forward in time....we'll be here for you

"Environment" can have a huge part to play, regardless of the past or genetics. Take this "fresh start" and use it to your advantage.... caring, love conquers a lot.....
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Last edited by Stonevintage; 06-15-2016 at 09:17 PM.
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post #35 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-16-2016, 01:55 AM
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Thank you for adopting her! Looks like she's settling in very well. Contact the former owner and ask when she vaccinated her. Too many or too frequent vaccines are not good for their health.

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post #36 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-18-2016, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
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Hi you guys, so we got Ophelia in to the vet this morning and unfortunately, she was diagnosed with heartworm disease. I do not believe her former owner was telling the truth about this dog's veterinary care and about dosing her every month with a heartworm preventative. The vet went over our options with us, including the least costly treatment, which is to kill the baby heartworms and let the adults live out their natural lifespan, and the recommended treatment, which is to kill all the heartworms and limit her activity for several months. What do you all recommend? We are leaning towards the recommended treatment, but I understand it is riskier, and much more expensive.

I am really attached to my girl by now, and want what's best for her. Has anyone treated a dog for heartworms successfully before? We are not really surprised to find this in her, but very disappointed and worried about her.
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post #37 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-18-2016, 11:57 PM
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I've done a lot of both with rescue dogs. HW is not the end of the world -- it's treatable. As "surprise" illnesses go, I prefer it over tons of other possibilities because we know the dog's chances of a complete recovery are excellent! As long as the dog is early in the disease (not caval), it is likely to recover and be just fine.

Immiticide treatment (fast kill) is the gold standard treatment. If you can afford it and the dog is strong, it's the fastest way to rid the dog of HWs. There's a good argument that you want them out as fast as possible because they are damaging the pulmonary arteries, lungs, and heart as long as they're in there.

In a young, healthy dog, the chance of complications from fast-kill with immiticide are low. It's a hard 3 months, with intense restrictions on movement (strict crate rest), but it's so hot and humid now it's not like anyone really wants to go outside anyway!

HOWEVER, I have had one foster dog die during fast-kill treatment (she threw a clot in her lungs, had multiple trips to LSU's emergency ICU clinic, got about $3000 in treatment to try to save her...and still died) -- it is not a "risk free" treatment. It would be wise to know the route to your nearest emergency clinic with an ICU (oxygen cage), just in case. It's arsenic based, and it's a tough thing for the dog to go through. Be very realistic about what it will mean: NO exercise, STRICT crate rest, leash-walk in your yard to potty, etc.

The cost of fast-kill (immicide) treatment varies immensely from clinic to clinic. I know one vet who does the series of 3 shots for $300 for a GSD-size dog. Another does it for $500. And a bunch charge $1000-1500. They all use the same dose of the same drug! No matter how much you like your vet, I'd call around to verify the price quote is reasonable, just for peace of mind.

If you consider slow kill, the ONLY way I do it is with ADVANTAGE MULTI (not Heartguard). We've seen dogs test HW neg in as few as 9 months using Doxy + Advantage Multi. (The longest I've seen it take is 18 months --12 months is probably average in our experience.) The two dogs that I personally know who tested HW-Neg in 9 months with no treatment except Doxy + Advantage Multi were older dogs--huge surprise as they had likely been HW+ a long time. I know LOTS of dogs who tested negative in 12 months. That's less than the HW life cycle so it's almost certain that the Advantage Multi is shortening the lives of the adult HWs--despite what the old research about using ivermectin says.

Advantage Multi works differently in the body than ivermectin because it builds up a steady-state in the blood after 4 months. That means the worms are constantly bombarded by it. That's the best theory any of my local vets have as to why it's killing adult HWs when the other HW preventative products are not. It's not used this way most places -- it's something I know of vets using regularly in South Louisiana (but not New Orleans).

Finally, there's some good, recent research demonstrating Advantage Multi does have some effectiveness against (young) adult HWs--a vet journal article came out in 2014 that you should discuss with your vet (one of the co-authors is Dr. McCall, a well-known HW researcher and former member of the HW Society's board):

Chandrashekar et al., Experimental Dirofilaria immitis infection in dogs: Effects of
doxycycline and Advantage Multi® administration on immature adult parasites,
Veterinary Parasitology 206 (2014) 93–98

I think the decision should be made with your vet based on your finances, the overall age and health of the dog, and severity of infection (e.g., are there clinical signs of HW disease yet)? There are times when we HAVE to do slow-kill with Advantage Multi because the dog is too weak to go through immiticide treatment (esp. with seniors). There are times when we HAVE to do fast-kill with immiticide because the disease is advancing and the dog doesn't have much time unless the worms are killed quickly. Then there are times it's a cost-benefit analysis and either decision is defensible. You've got to talk this through with your vet, since your vet is the one looking at the x-rays of the chest, listening to the heart and lungs, and looking at your dog's bloodwork.

Either way, you can save some money by asking your vet to order Doxycycline compounded for you -- Wedgewood pharmacy out of NJ sells it in 400mg chicken-flavored tablets that end up being A LOT cheaper than a large supply of the 100 mg generic capsules. Roadrunner pharmacy out of Arizona also sometimes has good pricing. Your vet will have to check the pricing for you -- they won't talk to you directly. Here's a link:
Veterinary Pharmacy, Wedgewood Pet RX
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post #38 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-23-2016, 03:07 AM
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My girl is almost 6yrs old. I rescued her from the streets when she was around 4-6 months old. I tried everything to get her to bond with me. She has but at a distance. She has severe anxiety when I hug her, pet her too much, growls when she is picked up to get put into tub, she won't get on the couch with me only on the floor in front of me, she is very smart. Knows basic commands. She plays with my 8yr old and his 1yr old Dachshund. I'm very disappointed in her progress after all these years but I wouldn't trade my ignorance or her resistance for another dog. I love her too much she is my lifetime dog. Who ever had her beat her badly. You couldn't touch her. That's why I named her Chewie. It took me a long time to get her where she is now. My fear is her getting hurt and her not allowing me to treat her or her biting a vet. It took 5 of us to hold her down to administer her shots and microchip. I love her regardless of the challenges.
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post #39 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-23-2016, 12:15 PM
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I have had two rescues with HW . One was a young dog less thana18 months and another was a adult. It has been over 10 years since I last treated a dog for H/W but both came through very well with the series of shots. It was around 900.00 dollars then . I liked the fast kill way best that way it is done However I think the suggestion make the plan with your vet is the best advice. Magwart is right about the rest and the risk. I have been lucky both times we used the fast kill.

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Last edited by Daisy&Lucky's Mom; 06-23-2016 at 12:20 PM.
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