Neutered/Spayed Pups Suddenly Fighting - Page 7 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 63Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #61 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-10-2017, 06:30 PM
No Stinkin' Leashes Moderator
 
Cassidy's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 31,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by emcale View Post
I would NOT rather have a dog injured or killed then re-home, my husband would.
So, he would be willing for one of your dogs to seriously injure or kill the other before he would consider re-homing one of them??? I'm guessing that he wouldn't actually, it sounds he's just dismissing that as a possibility. And he's dismissing your fears that it might happen, which is a whole other concern. He needs to understand that it absolutely CAN happen and if a serious fight occurs it's going to be very difficult for you to break it up by yourself if he's not there, it's going to be very difficult for him to break it up even if he is there, and in either case there could very well still be injuries to one or both dogs, and likely the humans attempting to intervene. He needs to take that risk seriously, and do whatever is necessary to prevent it from ever happening.

Quote:
Hubby and I have had a good relationship up until now (8 years married, 10 years together), but this has admittedly, just derailed us. He doesn't understand why I'm stressed all the time. Yes, it is very frustrating that we won't listen to reason with the re-homing thing. And I'm outnumbered, since the roommate doesn't think we should re-home either. We also live near his family who doesn't think re-homing should even be considered. In all seriousness, what kind of argument could I put forth when they compare the pups to human children? "You wouldn't re-home your human children if things got difficult would you?" How do I argue with that? Seriously, I want to know what to say to them.
Human children don't have the sharp teeth and bite strength that a dog does. Your husband and in-laws need to see photos of the damage a dog bite can do. They need to see some videos of dogs attacking. I don't think they'd be saying such things to you if they understood that there is NO comparison. A difficult child (and aren't they all difficult, really?) isn't going to be able to quickly inflict multiple deep bite wounds that can cause permanent nerve damage or disfigurement. Dogs can. And since they want to bring up children, have any of them considered the danger kids would be in living with dogs that already have a fight history?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emcale View Post
They HAVE fought when I'm here. That was the original scenario I posted about. Hubby was able to separate. The fights happened when I wasn't paying 100% attention. So I'm saying that, even though I DON'T want them to fight when I'm there, if it happens, I can at least try to separate. Or better yet, prevent it.
You may not be able to break up or prevent a fight, even if you are paying 100% attention. Dog fights happen fast, and seemingly benign incidents can escalate extremely quickly, especially if you're not extremely savvy about dog behavior and don't know what to look for and aren't able to stop it before it's too late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunsilver View Post
Also, your husband is being totally unrealistic about the danger these fights pose. THEY WILL ESCALATE, have no doubt about it! They are going to start injuring one another. And something else you may not realize: the number one cause of dog owners being bitten is when they try to break up fight! Been there, had it happen, and it was my OWN DOG that bit me! Another dog was hanging on to his hind leg. He couldn't reach her so he redirected his frustration and pain onto me, and another person who was present.

In another case, a couple that was living with me had 2 male GSDs. Her husband made the mistake of putting them both outside together one night. The larger one KILLED the smaller one.

Dogs are not humans. They have very little concept of what's right or wrong. They can and will hurt each other, and possibly you or your husband as well.
^This.
WateryTart and dogma13 like this.

-Debbie-
Cava 1/6/18
Keefer 8/25/05-4/24/19 ~ The sweetest boy
Halo 11/9/08-6/17/18 ~ You left pawprints on our hearts
Dena 9/12/04-10/4/08 ~ Forever would have been too short
Cassidy 6/8/00-10/4/04
Cassidy's Mom is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-10-2017, 07:18 PM
Crowned Member
 
wolfy dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 9,364
Is your husband reading these posts at all? If he cares about you, he should. If he doesn't want to, that is the biggest red flag of all. I don't understand how he can put your safety in jeopardy if, one day, you need to break up a nasty fight. Maybe check the marriage vows, which I don't mean to be sarcastic, but really serious. It is sad and I feel for you all, incl. the dogs. They didn't ask for this stress in their lives. They are just puppies and should have fun.
wolfy dog is offline  
post #63 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-11-2017, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
emcale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 100
@Muskeg - Good point you make. I explained somewhat of what the fights look like in another post, but basically, this looks different than their usual play fighting. They have play-fought a lot in their 6 months together, so I feel like I probably know the difference, though I wouldnít fool myself into thinking that quite yet LOL.

Basically, they snarl and growl and bark very loud. They have stiff bodies and are flailing about with teeth bared and paws occasionally hitting each other. They never put teeth on each other, and so far the paws to just touch occasionally, but no blood is drawn. It takes them a little while to calm down afterward. This is what the two fights have looked like since the surgery. But I'm happy to report there have been no fights the past two days

I will try to find ways to keep them separated during the day and away from the other 5 dogs when Iím not there so nothing terrible happens.

@Cassidyís Mom -
Quote:
So, he would be willing for one of your dogs to seriously injure or kill the other before he would consider re-homing one of them??? I'm guessing that he wouldn't actually, it sounds he's just dismissing that as a possibility.
Youíre correct, heís dismissing it as a possibility. I was harsh when I put it that way. I agree he needs to take it seriously. We had a long talk a couple of nights ago and I explained my fears and he listened much better. I think heís coming around

Quote:
And since they want to bring up children, have any of them considered the danger kids would be in living with dogs that already have a fight history?
Great point here. I havenít considered giving them that argument. We want children but if I'm every afraid our dogs will fight or hurt our child, I'm definitely putting my foot down. I really don't think it'll come to that. Husband is coming around a little at a time.

Itís an odd family, my in-laws. And as bad as it sounds, they would die for their pets before dying for another human being, be it their spouse, children, etc. I know, I know. It sounds terrible, but that is just the culture and mindset Iím living around. They humanize the pets very much. Itís hard to reasonably talk to people like that. Iím trying though. I think my husband, at least, is coming around.

Quote:
You may not be able to break up or prevent a fight, even if you are paying 100% attention.
Good information. I guess I thought it could be prevented. Iím glad to know that the pressureís off in that sense, but itís even more important to separate as much as possible to prevent it. I know that now. Thank you for that info.

@wolfy dog - Thank you for that post. He isnít reading the posts (not a big forum guy) but Iím relaying as much info as I can. We did have a very good talk a couple of nights ago and I also vented my frustrations to friends and family, which helped a lot. Hubbyís coming around. His mother offered to take care of one or both if we feel like itís too much for us in our situation, so we have options. And I truly hope the dogs arenít living under stress. I feel like Iíve given them a very good life so far. I exercise them multiple times a day, Iím training them, Iím giving them new experiences as often as I can. My hands are a little tied given our living situation, but I really think theyíre coping well. The surgery has just thrown us all for a loop. They canít exercise and their hormones are out of whack, so I think everything just seems more amplified than usual.

I hope to find better ways of separating them during the weekdays when weíre here. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
emcale is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #64 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-11-2017, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
emcale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 100
Thank you all for taking the time to respond the last few days. It has helped me a lot, as well as talking through my frustrations with friends, family, and my husband. I want to give a couple of updates for those who are kind enough to read

For this week to help with recovery, we've decided to board them at the vet. I've never boarded them before so I'm a little nervous and hope they do OK, but I feel like they need to be able to be confined and relaxed and calm during their recovery, as many of you reiterated. After thinking it through and reading all your responses, I felt like I couldn't give them the calm they needed this week. So for that reason alone, I feel good about keeping them at the vet for a few days.

I had a very good conversation with my husband and friends/family. Most said that everything will be OK and I didn't need to put so much pressure on myself. So that reads, don't change the situation, change myself/my attitude about everything. But my MIL offered to take care of one or both of the pups until we get our own place, or if we just felt like we couldn't handle two anymore. That was very kind of her. Not sure if my husband wants to take her up on it though. He just loves both of the pups so much, he doesn't feel they need to be separated. His family definitely humanizes their pets. He doesn't want to separate a "family."

We have a solution for this week with post-surgery recovery (as explained above), but I'm looking to the future and am trying to come up with ways to keep them separated, especially when I'm not here. I am thinking through all your comments and am looking at my current set-up, and I hope to post later on what my plans are.

You all are great! You've taken the time to respond thoughtfully to my questions and concerns, and have even shown concern for my well-being. Thank you very much! While Mac & Tasha are at the vet these few days, I'm taking some R&R for myself. I think I need it
dogfaeries, Aly, sebrench and 4 others like this.
emcale is offline  
post #65 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-11-2017, 03:38 PM
Elite Member
 
sebrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,892
If you are looking to bolster your argument about re-homing one of the dogs, tell your husband that you will not risk any potential children (a toddler, for instance) getting in the middle of a dog fight. Tell him that you will not have time to devote to raising a child when you are trying to manage his two dogs that don't get along. Many people can't handle one dog with a newborn, let alone two. Tell him the child's well-being and safety come first, and you are not willing to spend all your time managing his dogs, you are going to focus on your children. Nothing wrong with that. I have two GSDs and two young children (a 2-year-old and 7-month-old). I even crate/rotate my GSDs out of an over-abundance of caution. But those are my dogs, I wanted them, I love to train them, and they were my choice. I shoulder a lot of the childcare and housework as well. My hubby's wonderful, he helps, but it is a lot to juggle. Had my husband forced the dogs on me....no, not cool. Not cool at all.

Edit to add: I just saw your updated post. I think MIL's offer is a good one. How nice that she has offered to take on one of the dogs. The separation will be harder on your husband and you than the dogs. If the dogs are fighting, they will likely be happier apart. If one is with family, you will still be able to visit and know the dog is doing well...even better.

Last edited by sebrench; 12-11-2017 at 03:48 PM.
sebrench is offline  
post #66 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-11-2017, 09:50 PM
No Stinkin' Leashes Moderator
 
Cassidy's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 31,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by emcale View Post
I had a very good conversation with my husband and friends/family. Most said that everything will be OK and I didn't need to put so much pressure on myself. So that reads, don't change the situation, change myself/my attitude about everything. But my MIL offered to take care of one or both of the pups until we get our own place, or if we just felt like we couldn't handle two anymore. That was very kind of her. Not sure if my husband wants to take her up on it though. He just loves both of the pups so much, he doesn't feel they need to be separated. His family definitely humanizes their pets. He doesn't want to separate a "family."
What he, and probably they, need to realize is that littermates that have never been separated can bond very strongly to each other. So much so, that they don't really need the humans so much, and won't listen to or obey them. Everyone might not be too concerned about that now, when they're 7 month old puppies, but imagine two large, strong, untrained adult dogs who do whatever they want. That is a recipe for disaster.

What most people who raise littermates (which is not generally recommended) do is keep them kept separate at least part of the time. Otherwise, when you NEED to separate them, such as when one needs to stay at the vet or something, it's very difficult. It's better to get them used to being by themselves sometimes, and also good to have one on one attention from the humans from time to time without having to compete with their brother/sister. Even though none of my two dog pairs have been littermates I still made sure that they had some time being the "only dog".

Once they've recovered and come home from the vet, how about this: Your in-laws take one dog for a few weeks or months and the other stays with you, and then you switch. Do you think they will be any more equipped to deal with a dog fight than you are? If not, having both dogs stay with them temporarily is just kicking the can down the road. But if you had a chance to live/work/train with one dog at a time while they kept the other dog, I think that would really help your confidence. And I think it would be good for the dogs too.

-Debbie-
Cava 1/6/18
Keefer 8/25/05-4/24/19 ~ The sweetest boy
Halo 11/9/08-6/17/18 ~ You left pawprints on our hearts
Dena 9/12/04-10/4/08 ~ Forever would have been too short
Cassidy 6/8/00-10/4/04
Cassidy's Mom is offline  
post #67 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-20-2017, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
emcale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 100
Update

A few updates I'd like to share

It's been 2 weeks since the surgery and everything is going smoothly. Stitches were removed yesterday (that was a nightmare, but that's for another post LOL).

We did have them boarded at the vet's for a few nights during their recovery to help keep them calm. I was very nervous about this, but both seem to have done fine and don't seem scarred by the experience.

There also has not been a fight since we've gone back to our regular routine of playing, training, etc. I'd like to chalk up the fight to not feeling well after surgery or just pent up energy from not being able to play and run.

As far as everybody's opinion on separating them at home, I'm still trying to think about the best course of action for me and my situation. I'm also dealing with strong personalities around me who don't think they should be separated so much and think I'm overreacting.

As to the re-homing thing, I'm afraid that hasn't really changed. MIL did offer to take one or both because she feels like they're a family now and shouldn't be separated or re-homed to a stranger. Even though she offered, she's in no position herself to raise one dog, let alone two. She has not said this, but I know her living situation as well. They wouldn't be going to a better situation. So I feel the offer is not serious.

Anyway, we're back to our usual routine around here. They're still a lot to handle for me at times, but we're trying to make it work. I'm trying to balance my time better and not get so overwhelmed with them. The advice from my well-intentioned in-laws is to just shut myself off in my bedroom and leave them to roam the house when I feel like I need time to myself. Or to shut them off in the backyard to play while I get work done. Both of these suggestions involve the dogs being unsupervised. So you see what I'm having to deal with here? This is the advice I'm given LOL. Oh well... Thanks, everybody!
emcale is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome