Neutered/Spayed Pups Suddenly Fighting - Page 5 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #41 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-10-2017, 12:19 AM Thread Starter
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@Pytheis - Thank you for sharing your story. I'm so sorry what you went through. What a great point to pose to my husband. Thank you for your "blessing" of re-homing. I mean that sincerely. I want to do what's best. And you're right, they aren't going to be happy being in cages and cooped up all the time. They haven't been like that to this point, so I really didn't want to start. I am definitely NOT well set up for a crate and rotate routine. I do want them to be safe. It's sad thinking I've put them in a situation where they might not be. Thank you for your input!

@Stevenzachsmom - It sounds like you are a very sweet person. Thank you for your encouragement! I do probably need some "mom" input right now

When we got these puppies at 8 weeks old, I didn't know what I was in for, and I did "shut down" several times during those first two months, where I would just cry, go to the bedroom, and shut the door and not come out because everything was so stressful. The accidents, the energy, the training. It was too much to handle at the time. Hubby handled the two pups during these moments, but it is that reaction that he saw in me that made him think I couldn't handle children, and when it got tough, I would just shut down. I understood that I reacted very immaturely and that I was very stressed at the moment and just couldn't handle it, but I was trying to tell him that I understood human child behavior much better than puppy behavior (I am a teacher, after all). So I would think that I could handle a child much more effectively than puppies. Regardless, I have stepped up with this life change that was happened to us without giving up. He remembers the instances where I "shut down," and I still do, occasionally, because I'm so stressed and frustrated, and I know he's always thinking of that when I give the "re-home" option. He thinks it's my way of giving up and shutting down.

Anyway, I say all that to say that that is the reason he takes the position he does. I feel like we have always had good communication and it has always been a two-way street with us. We have made a good team thus far. We're just at an impasse with this.

Sorry, thanks for letting me vent and explain that. You are so sweet to encourage me! Keep giving me "forum hugs" LOL. I need them

@MineAreWorkingline -
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So then you do want to separate them when you are home as that is when they are getting into fights. It also would give you some down time to get things done and to relax before going to work.
Yes definitely!

@voodoolamb - Thanks for the verification. It's scary to think it could get worse. I'm taking all this advice to heart. I want them to be safe.

Also, thank you for sharing your personal story. I've heard a couple of those stories where even human children have been "re-homed" because it is what's best for them. It's apparently hard for my husband, and even me, to know when re-homing is the best option. If we keep these puppies, would we have given them the best life they could have? If we re-home them, would we regret it and would our relationship with each other suffer? I know these are questions for counselors and therapists, but it's therapeutic to put it out there. And thank you for the encouragement. I don't like being guilt-tripped either and it makes me angry.

I actually really like the journey this thread has gone through. This has been therapeutic this evening It's helping me put things in perspective.
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post #42 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-10-2017, 12:50 AM
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I've been sitting here, trying to figure out how to word this. Honestly, there is nothing wrong with finding another home for a dog. No, they shouldn't be treated like they are disposable, but let's not be so arrogant that we think that we are the best home for the dog/dogs that we have. That's simply not true. If it's making your life miserable having two puppies, then you should be able to find a home for one. Dogs are supposed to enrich our lives, not make them depressingly difficult.

I'm just concerned that your dogs aren't having much of an opportunity to heal from their surgeries. It's important that they rest, and don't wrestle around. After that, then you can figure out how to safely raise large puppies in a tiny space.

~ Diane ~

CARLY ......... Ch. Lauremi's No Reservations (AKC GCh pointed, HIC)
SCARLET ..... Lauremi's Almost Wasn't (AKC pointed)
and absent friends... SAGE ~ Lauremi's Whim Z v Jakmar ~ AKC major ptd, HIC ~ 2010-2015
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post #43 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-10-2017, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcale View Post
So, so far, I'm hearing that basically we're screwed...? At some point, they'll either hurt each other or us and based on the stipulations I'm putting on all of you on the advice, there's no way to prevent it. Is that right? Will somebody please talk to my husband and convince him to re-home one or both of them? PLEASE?!
Yes, you are. Time for your husband to wake up and face reality. How can you wait until something terrible happens? Keep the one who is injured less?
Or maybe it wil resolve itself when one is killed by the other, which is not unheard of. In the past I had a Malinois female who was fine with other dogs until she was spayed and became dog aggressive. The following is my take: the hormonal balance in your dogs is now disturbed. First there was a clear difference; female - male = balance. Now the female has lost her female hormones and her testosterone is more prevalent. Your male has lost much of his testosterone, which put them in a more equal rank and thus the sibling syndrome has hit them.
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post #44 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-10-2017, 01:50 AM Thread Starter
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@dogfaeries - Thank you for that validation. I'm struggling with whether we are giving them the best possible home. I honestly don't know. I mean, they're getting a lot of attention, a lot of exercise, a lot of training. But they're living with many other dogs during the week. I don't know how that's affecting them. I also don't know if not being able to separate them is causing more harm than good. My husband thinks we ARE the best home for them and that we would be giving them away just because I'm frustrated and stressed. His argument is I'm causing my own stress and frustration, but I think what I'm doing is what these dogs need. And it's a lot. These dogs are making my life depressingly difficult. I haven't quite seen a huge upside yet. Again, the husband doesn't agree.

I will have to help them this week more than usual be separated from each other and the other dogs. I think I'll put a crate on the bed with one of them in there and the other on the floor in the bedroom. That's the best I can do right now. At least until they heal. And then, yes, as you said, then decide how to better raise them in the environment.

@wolfy dog - Thank you for that information on why they're acting differently. Their hormones are imbalanced. It's so sad. I feel like I've really done them a disservice now by having them fixed. I thought it was the best thing and my vet thought it was too, but now I'm just worried this might have caused more problems. But what's done is done, sadly. Now it's just dealing with the consequences.

And my husband doesn't think the reality is as you described. Unfortunately, he's going to have to see something bad happen before he believes it. He told me himself that I would be causing more confusion by going through the hassle of separating them to keep something that MIGHT happen from happening. We're actually having the conversation right now LOL.
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post #45 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-10-2017, 02:16 AM
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Twenty years ago I got divorced, and shared a room upstairs at my parents house with my 5 year old son and the cat. My Doberman and my sheltie had to be farmed out to a friend, because my parents said no dogs. I didnít get my dogs back until I bought a house 10 months later. I get how situations can change.

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CARLY ......... Ch. Lauremi's No Reservations (AKC GCh pointed, HIC)
SCARLET ..... Lauremi's Almost Wasn't (AKC pointed)
and absent friends... SAGE ~ Lauremi's Whim Z v Jakmar ~ AKC major ptd, HIC ~ 2010-2015
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post #46 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-10-2017, 02:22 AM
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He told me himself that I would be causing more confusion by going through the hassle of separating them to keep something that MIGHT happen from happening. We're actually having the conversation right now LOL.

They need to learn to be separated. I have 3 GSDs and they didnít spend 24/7 with another dog while they were growing up. This 15 month old puppy goes to work with me, while the other two stay at home. And those other two went through the same routine. They all function independently of each other.

~ Diane ~

CARLY ......... Ch. Lauremi's No Reservations (AKC GCh pointed, HIC)
SCARLET ..... Lauremi's Almost Wasn't (AKC pointed)
and absent friends... SAGE ~ Lauremi's Whim Z v Jakmar ~ AKC major ptd, HIC ~ 2010-2015
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post #47 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-10-2017, 02:27 AM Thread Starter
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@dogfaeries -
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My Doberman and my sheltie had to be farmed out to a friend because my parents said no dogs. I didnít get my dogs back until I bought a house 10 months later. I get how situations can change.
I'm very interested to know how this worked out. Was it hard to bond with your dogs 10 months later?

I wonder if this could be an option for us, maybe having someone raise our pups for a while until we can get our own place. How was the transition for them? Did you have any trouble bonding with them after the separation?
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post #48 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-10-2017, 02:33 AM
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@dogfaeries - I'm very interested to know how this worked out. Was it hard to bond with your dogs 10 months later?



I wonder if this could be an option for us, maybe having someone raise our pups for a while until we can get our own place. How was the transition for them? Did you have any trouble bonding with them after the separation?


I made a point to visit them every day. My friend took good care of them (he was a little nervous though when the big bad Doberman jumped in bed with him). They were just fine at his house. And had no problem with me running back and forth to see them.

~ Diane ~

CARLY ......... Ch. Lauremi's No Reservations (AKC GCh pointed, HIC)
SCARLET ..... Lauremi's Almost Wasn't (AKC pointed)
and absent friends... SAGE ~ Lauremi's Whim Z v Jakmar ~ AKC major ptd, HIC ~ 2010-2015
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post #49 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-10-2017, 02:39 AM
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I guess I should say the dogs had no problem with me running back and forth. They got a lot of attention, they just didnít physically live with me.

~ Diane ~

CARLY ......... Ch. Lauremi's No Reservations (AKC GCh pointed, HIC)
SCARLET ..... Lauremi's Almost Wasn't (AKC pointed)
and absent friends... SAGE ~ Lauremi's Whim Z v Jakmar ~ AKC major ptd, HIC ~ 2010-2015
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post #50 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-10-2017, 03:32 AM
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Hubby handled the two pups during these moments, but it is that reaction that he saw in me that made him think I couldn't handle children, and when it got tough, I would just shut down. I understood that I reacted very immaturely and that I was very stressed at the moment and just couldn't handle it, but I was trying to tell him that I understood human child behavior much better than puppy behavior (I am a teacher, after all). So I would think that I could handle a child much more effectively than puppies. Regardless, I have stepped up with this life change that was happened to us without giving up. He remembers the instances where I "shut down," and I still do, occasionally, because I'm so stressed and frustrated, and I know he's always thinking of that when I give the "re-home" option. He thinks it's my way of giving up and shutting down.

Anyway, I say all that to say that that is the reason he takes the position he does. I feel like we have always had good communication and it has always been a two-way street with us. We have made a good team thus far. We're just at an impasse with this.


My husband and I successfully raised 5 children. My husband was working away months at a time while the children were little (still is). It was very hard on me managing on my own. One of many highlights, he got back home from an interstate trip 20 minutes before the homebirth of our 3rd child. They are all grown up now and they are all nice people with great jobs, we have had, through the years, lots of compliments about our family.

That was background to say, raising my dog, going through his adolescence and into adulthood, was harder than raising my family. Coming to terms with his drives, surgeries, the transition from a pup to being the lovely, well behaved adult dog he is now, he did have me in tears a few times. Raising 2 pups, with your change in circumstances, oh wow, you have my utmost empathy. I hope I'm very wrong, but I just don't get the sense your husband is 'on your side', 'there for you', regarding the dogs. Raising dogs is not like raising a family. You are stressed and frustrated. Your husband needs to fix this.
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