Neutered/Spayed Pups Suddenly Fighting - Page 4 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #31 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2017, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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@voodoolamb - Thank you for all your input Very scary about the fights when owners aren't there. I had no idea. I will try very hard to find a solution in our situation now. I know in the future when we have our own space we'll be able to control the environment 100%. Until then, I need to be creative, it sounds like.

So, mine have a fight history, it sounds like...? But what is the definition of a dogfight? My two have stiff bodies, hackles raised, and just growl and flail around a lot, sometimes paws will hit, but so far no contact other than that happens with them. It's very loud and scary, and very different from play fighting. So anyway, when I say "fight," that's what I'm referring to. Does this change any advice?

Hubby and I have had a good relationship up until now (8 years married, 10 years together), but this has admittedly, just derailed us. He doesn't understand why I'm stressed all the time. Yes, it is very frustrating that we won't listen to reason with the re-homing thing. And I'm outnumbered, since the roommate doesn't think we should re-home either. We also live near his family who doesn't think re-homing should even be considered. In all seriousness, what kind of argument could I put forth when they compare the pups to human children? "You wouldn't re-home your human children if things got difficult would you?" How do I argue with that? Seriously, I want to know what to say to them.

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Oh trust me! I wish I were the exception to sometimes (Especially in regards to random windfalls and metabolism! LOL)
Love it I feel like I'm not the exception to any rule sometimes, including the metabolism one LOL

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Expect a bit of a roller coaster, that's what tends to happen with raising dogs.
This is a great point. I actually didn't know it would take that long for GSDs to mature. I'm not sure I can take this roller coaster much longer But it's good to know that that's to be expected. Thanks for the encouragement!
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post #32 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2017, 11:43 PM
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@voodoolamb - Putting one in a crate on the bed and the other just left on the floor of the bedroom... Why haven't I thought of that? LOL Yes, that could work. Our bedroom is tiny, and this would be the only option other than tethering them on opposite sides of the room somehow. I'll look into that. I need to find a crate big enough for one of them...

@Sabis mom - I know, it's complicated. I'll be glad to explain further. I didn't want to bore people with all the details, but perhaps it would help here.

The breeder is reputable and told us the difficulties we would have. Husband didn't care. Wanted to buy two of them. The breeder was honest, but didn't talk us out of it. Wish he had But I don't blame him.

We can't crate because, in our living situation, there is no room. We've also been asked not to put crates in the main living area of the house in which we are staying. Our bedroom (our only personal space) is too small to put any crates. No room to put one, let alone two.

Our living situation changed AFTER my husband and I purchased our two pups. We were originally in our own home by ourselves and were able to crate, separate, etc. Life changed, and we're in this living situation. Most people would have re-homed them at this point given the life change, but my husband wouldn't hear of it. He loves them too much. He said it would be like giving away one of your children if your life suddenly got hard. No one would do that in that instance, so it's the same here. Could someone please talk sense to him?

I would NOT rather have a dog injured or killed then re-home, my husband would. I'm trying to keep that from happening as best I can given our situation because I cannot talk my husband into re-homing. I don't understand him either. Maybe you could talk to him..?

I don't think you're mean or unkind, you're genuinely wanting to know what crazy person would be in this situation

If this isn't going away, I have to find a way, for the year that we are in this situation, to prevent something terrible from happening as much as possible. There MUST be a way. Otherwise, maybe this is a huge wake-up call to my husband.

I hope it helped you understand a little better
Ok. No room for crates. I will get slammed for this I have no doubt, but hey it is what it is. Go buy two chain leashes and anchor them to opposite walls in your room. Not ideal by any means but better then nothing. Tether them to you (one dog each) when your home. Separate walks, separate training, definitely separate feeding.

You are correct, it is not cool to dump a dog JUST because life gets tough. But it is totally cool to rehome a dog for it's own safety and well being. I had to do it. I picked the dog that was coping the worst with our situation, and the one that stood the best chance of being ok in a new home.
I will happily talk to your other half. I feel safe saying I have sacrificed more then most would for my dogs. I have been homeless with my dogs, I have gone hungry to feed them, I have slept in vehicles with them. The one thing I will never do is put my feelings ahead of their well being.
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post #33 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2017, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
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@MineAreWorkingline - I'm so sorry for the confusion.

They HAVE fought when I'm here. That was the original scenario I posted about. Hubby was able to separate. The fights happened when I wasn't paying 100% attention. So I'm saying that, even though I DON'T want them to fight when I'm there, if it happens, I can at least try to separate. Or better yet, prevent it.

I don't think they've ever fought when I'm NOT there, but obviously, I might not know that for sure. And I'd like to prevent it from occurring, especially during surgery recovery. So I'm concerned about both scenarios. Does that make more sense?

@Nigel - I haven't thought about a kennel outside. Her dogs go outside quite a bit, so I don't know if that matters or not, but that's doable. They do well with the other dogs in the home. One is a senior, two are adults, and two are puppies. They like to play with the other puppies. They don't have much interaction with the adult and senior dogs, but they seem to be fine together, although the roommate's dogs have growled at mine before just for walking in their way. I don't think they like my pups LOL.

@Pytheis -
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You said that you are doing almost all of the work when you were the one that didn't even want one dog... So how is it that he gets to make all the decisions?
Thank you! This is my argument to him exactly. Does it make any sense to you? It's not fair. He would say he does a lot of the work, and he does help out when he's there, but he's just gone most of the day for work. He can't help that. I work evenings, so I'm there with them during the most active parts of the day. When he gets home in the evenings they're tired from their daily activities so they sleep when he's there. Of course he would think nothing's wrong and it's totally easy LOL

Our relationship has always been a good one, but this has really thrown us for a loop. We've never considered counseling, although it would be so nice to have a third party look at this objectively. Hubby probably would not respond well to it, though. It's just a difficult situation. Although posting on this thread has actually been quite therapeutic LOL

Very interesting story about the two female dogs you mentioned. Maybe it would take something like this for my husband to do something. I don't know. I think it's the best decision to re-home, but how do I convince the husband who equates it with re-homing one of your human children if things were difficult? I don't know how to put forth a good argument that would counteract that.
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post #34 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2017, 11:48 PM
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In all seriousness, what kind of argument could I put forth when they compare the pups to human children? "You wouldn't re-home your human children if things got difficult would you?" How do I argue with that? Seriously, I want to know what to say to them.
Dogs ARE NOT people, no matter how much someone wishes they were. They do not think the same or act the same, and they have different needs. It is extremely immature, IMO, to say that they are one and the same. There are way more options to work with a human child if you are having issues in the home. And what do you think foster homes are?

I'll tell you a bit about my childhood:
I am the youngest of five children. I have three older brothers and one older sister. My sister is 9 years old than me, so we never really grew up together. I did, however, live with my brothers. I was treated very, very poorly. It was a highly abusive situation, and my parents were divorced. My mother was trying to keep me safe all by herself and do what she could to love and support my brothers. The state came in, observed the home, and legally removed my brother from the house. They said that it was not safe for us to live together. My mother did everything she could. She worked very hard to do everything right. But the situation was not acceptable, so my brother had to be "rehomed" if you will.

My point is, sometimes things do happen with humans as well. It is mature to accept when something is just not a good fit. Doing what is best for ALL involved is more important than anything. It is unacceptable to think that it is better to make dogs and your wife suffer just because you "love" your pets. Love them enough to do what is best for them.
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post #35 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2017, 11:53 PM
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Hon, seriously, I too am concerned about your relationship. I know you say it has always been good with your husband, but currently, he is not treating you like an equal partner. He has not listened to you at any point throughout the puppy process. And sadly, all of his decisions have been bad. His arguments do not make sense. We all love our dogs, but dogs are not children. We may be an a situation where we have to rehome a dog, even though we don't want to. There is no comparison between rehoming a dog and getting rid of a child. I especially take offense to him saying you wouldn't be a good mother, because you can't handle these two puppies. You should too. IMO, that is borderline abusive on an emotional level.

I know it's not my business. It's just that I have two young adult daughters. I'd be seeing red flags, if their SO was treating them like you are being treated. Just the Mom in me, coming out. Take good care of you.

Hugs!
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post #36 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2017, 11:53 PM Thread Starter
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@Sabis mom - Wow, it sounds like you have had quite an experience with dogs! It puts my situation into perspective. I would be very interested to know how you coped with your difficult situations. I feel like I've sacrificed quite a bit for mine already, I couldn't imagine what you went through.

I think I will try putting a crate on the bed and keeping one on the floor of the bedroom. Similar to your tethering on opposite ends of the room. This might be the compromise that's needed.

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You are correct, it is not cool to dump a dog JUST because life gets tough. But it is totally cool to rehome a dog for it's own safety and well being.
That is a great point. How do I know which one it is, though? My husband would say that this would be just re-homing them because life is tough. Would you say, in this situation, it would be for their own safety and well-being? I think I might agree with you, but I don't know if I can get hubby to. He just doesn't see it that way.

Thank you for your input.
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post #37 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2017, 11:55 PM
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Hon, seriously, I too am concerned about your relationship. I know you say it has always been good with your husband, but currently, he is not treating you like an equal partner. His arguments do not make sense. We all love our dogs, but dogs are not children. There is no comparison between rehoming a dog and getting rid of a child. I especially take offense to him saying you wouldn't be a good mother, because you can't handle these two puppies. You should too. IMO, that is borderline abusive on an emotional level.
This ^

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post #38 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-09-2017, 11:55 PM
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@MineAreWorkingline - I'm so sorry for the confusion.

They HAVE fought when I'm here. That was the original scenario I posted about. Hubby was able to separate. The fights happened when I wasn't paying 100% attention. So I'm saying that, even though I DON'T want them to fight when I'm there, if it happens, I can at least try to separate. Or better yet, prevent it.

I don't think they've ever fought when I'm NOT there, but obviously, I might not know that for sure. And I'd like to prevent it from occurring, especially during surgery recovery. So I'm concerned about both scenarios. Does that make more sense?

So then you do want to separate them when you are home as that is when they are getting into fights. It also would give you some down time to get things done and to relax before going to work.
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post #39 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-10-2017, 12:00 AM
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If the dogs are in a position where they could seriously injure themselves or one another, it is cool, as you guys are saying, to rehome. They are not safe.

Do you really think they'll be happy being cooped up in cages and separated their entire lives? I know that plenty of people do the crate and rotate and have absolutely no issues, but you are so not set up for that. You need way more support if you are going to make that happen.

Do not let it get to the point of a flayed leg, lost eye, puncture wound, or anything else. That is not loving your pets. That is borderline neglect and abuse. Not okay.

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post #40 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-10-2017, 12:01 AM
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So, mine have a fight history, it sounds like...? But what is the definition of a dogfight? My two have stiff bodies, hackles raised, and just growl and flail around a lot, sometimes paws will hit, but so far no contact other than that happens with them. It's very loud and scary, and very different from play fighting. So anyway, when I say "fight," that's what I'm referring to. Does this change any advice?
Yep. That's a fight.

And the scary thing is - these are pups. Things will probably get worse as they grow into their bodies and strength. Adolescents sometimes don't know their own strength one will throw around a little too much and the other will feel severely threatened and start fighting for their life. Not a good scenario.

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Hubby and I have had a good relationship up until now (8 years married, 10 years together), but this has admittedly, just derailed us. He doesn't understand why I'm stressed all the time. Yes, it is very frustrating that we won't listen to reason with the re-homing thing. And I'm outnumbered, since the roommate doesn't think we should re-home either. We also live near his family who doesn't think re-homing should even be considered. In all seriousness, what kind of argument could I put forth when they compare the pups to human children? "You wouldn't re-home your human children if things got difficult would you?" How do I argue with that? Seriously, I want to know what to say to them.
This really bothers me. I don't like the guilt tripping and emotional manipulation... I mean aside from the obvious that these are dogs not human children - I think it is a downright shame that he/they don't grasp that one of the most difficult and loving thing a parent of a child can ever do is be realistic about their capabilities and do what is best for their child. Two examples from my personal life, My best friend's partner was adopted, as an adult he tracked down his birth mother. At the time of his birth, she was not at a stable point in her life. Giving him up for adoption was the hardest thing she had to do, but in the end he had a good childhood. A much better one than she could have provided. Another example, and this one is a heart breaker, a cousin of mine had several children, their second eldest boy was born with severe emotional and developmental problems - without getting into too much detail... Their son put their 3 year old daughter into ICU. She now is disabled. There were other young children in the house who were in danger, and long story short their son was "re-homed" as it were. Sorry, but I just can't follow their logic there, there really are some cases where the most humane thing to do for human or fur child is letting them go IMHO.

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This is a great point. I actually didn't know it would take that long for GSDs to mature. I'm not sure I can take this roller coaster much longer But it's good to know that that's to be expected. Thanks for the encouragement!
Yes. GSDs tend to be a slower to mature breed, my guy is 2 1/2 and still has a lot of puppy in him...
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