Adopted female dog, they didn't tell me she was pregnant - Page 4 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #31 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-23-2017, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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It's hard to say. if the raw beef bones have salmonella on them, than the puppies contracting it from being licked and fed by the dam is a possibility. I would hold off of raw bones or raw eggs until the pups are at their adult temperature, about 3 weeks old. Some raw feeders wean pups onto raw food. So it is just the neonatal pups that might have a major issue.

Yes, they make noise. They are whelps. If you sit and watch the bitch, she will ignore some sounds, and other sounds she will zero right in on. She needs to help them potty, they cannot do it on their own. So they become uncomfortable, and she licks and cleans them and it allows them to urinate and defecate, and she eats that up. So when the puppies make certain squeals she knows her job. And usually when she is lying in the box and they are feeding, she will be cleaning them and helping them potty. It is amazing how much she knows.

After the pups are a week old or so, you will have to cut the ends of their nails. Their nails will become sharp and the bitch will not want to lie in there and feed them because it will start hurting her. Sometimes it is best to separate it into two days. Get a small dog toenail clipper, and clip the little ends off. Try not to nick the quick. If you do it isn't the end of the world. it will bleed a little and you can stop it with flour or corn startch. But they will be squirmier after you quick them.

It's a tough job, but it goes pretty fast, really. And you will get to love the babies, once their personalities start showing.
Days have flown by, I was thinking I was on day 7 and it's actually been 12 days. A few eyes have opened and they are starting to try to walk. They have gotten pretty vocal, including little baby barks.
What has been stressful is the impact on my male who has gotten pretty withdrawn over fear of the mother. She hasn't even done much to him, mostly just growled, but there were a few fights early on I guess he never got over. I think the fact that they were unprovoked and she didnt engage in any posturing and just attacked has him afraid of her unpredictability. Also I'm concerned about the impact my males presence has on the mother. I don't want to feel threatened.
Having my male stay with someone else isn't an option. He also a gsd rescue. He is a red sable male. I assume at least part working line and is possibly mixed. He is super reactive and dog aggressive if not patiently introduced, barks at everything and can be a bully to people he thinks are pushovers. Four years of work with behaviorists and there have been small but significant improvements but he is still super high maintenance. If he sees a dog while out on a walk he will injure someone not prepared for his reaction.
His issues are fodder for a new thread in a different section but suffice to say he isn't a dog you send off to stay with your sister while puppies are weaned.
Also it's not his first time living with another dog he is only aggressive towards dogs he doesn't know. Again probably a new topic here but I'm wondering how much a lasting effect this will have on him, as I'm assuming her aggression will wane once puppies are weaned and when she is spayed.
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post #32 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-23-2017, 09:22 PM
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Feel free to start another thread to address the problems with your male.

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post #33 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-23-2017, 09:47 PM
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Boot camp. six weeks. You can do anything for six weeks. Your dog (male) can be crated for six weeks with two bathroom breaks a day. I know this because when my boy shattered his leg back in the nineties, that was the vet advice -- 8 weeks in a crate, out twice a day to potty.

I am not suggesting you do this. But you need to completely separate your boy from the bitch and puppies. You need to give him some training time, once or twice a day, more than just a walk around the block. You need to interact during the walk, having him do sits and downs, and come-front, changes in direction, speed up, slow down, make him watch you. Exercise his mind as well as his body. Lots of success and praise. Then back home and put him in his safe spot.

I think you need to consider keeping a puppy and letting the bitch go back to the rescue AFTER the pups are 8 weeks old. I think your boy will handle a female, if brought in as a puppy much better than an adult of either sex, and a male pup might become a problem down the line.

Don't feel bad that it isn't working between your boy and this girl. Do keep her and her litter until they are ready to go though. She has had enough stress at a very stressful time.

I really do not think you have the resources to keep a bitch and a dog that are likely to injure each other badly. Your boy will survive the separation/safe place for six weeks. And after the bitch and the other pups have gone to the rescue or their new homes, he can be carefully introduced to the puppy. And if that doesn't work out after the old college try, you can find the puppy a good home, and just have the one dog.

The good news is that by 12 days, the puppies are less likely to be suffocated in any way. And, your bitch may be spending less time in there if their nails are beating her up. Check their nails.

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post #34 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by selzer View Post
Boot camp. six weeks. You can do anything for six weeks. Your dog (male) can be crated for six weeks with two bathroom breaks a day. I know this because when my boy shattered his leg back in the nineties, that was the vet advice -- 8 weeks in a crate, out twice a day to potty.

I am not suggesting you do this. But you need to completely separate your boy from the bitch and puppies. You need to give him some training time, once or twice a day, more than just a walk around the block. You need to interact during the walk, having him do sits and downs, and come-front, changes in direction, speed up, slow down, make him watch you. Exercise his mind as well as his body. Lots of success and praise. Then back home and put him in his safe spot.

I think you need to consider keeping a puppy and letting the bitch go back to the rescue AFTER the pups are 8 weeks old. I think your boy will handle a female, if brought in as a puppy much better than an adult of either sex, and a male pup might become a problem down the line.

Don't feel bad that it isn't working between your boy and this girl. Do keep her and her litter until they are ready to go though. She has had enough stress at a very stressful time.

I really do not think you have the resources to keep a bitch and a dog that are likely to injure each other badly. Your boy will survive the separation/safe place for six weeks. And after the bitch and the other pups have gone to the rescue or their new homes, he can be carefully introduced to the puppy. And if that doesn't work out after the old college try, you can find the puppy a good home, and just have the one dog.

The good news is that by 12 days, the puppies are less likely to be suffocated in any way. And, your bitch may be spending less time in there if their nails are beating her up. Check their nails.
Male and female are completely separated except for brief period when she is brought outside. I don't have a huge house but big enough to separate both dogs. Although never crate trained I'm actually crating him now for first time ever and with absolutely no resistance on his part for as long as a couple of hours. He likes the security and sensory deprivation. For all his reactivity he has a great off switch. He is 100 percent separated from pups at all times. I was going to see how the dynamic was after puppies were placed before deciding about rehoming her. I would of course really like to avoid that but if I have to I will.
I hate to say this because I know it is born out of fear but he is better behaved and less reactive with the female around. Will it be possible to build some bonding between them when her hormones go down?
I've thought about boot camp. What kind of liability would I have if he were to injure another dog? I'm sure there well equipped to handle that of course I'm just super careful about ever placing him in anybody else's hands.
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post #35 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 09:24 PM
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I'm sure there well equipped to handle that of course I'm just super careful about ever placing him in anybody else's hands.

Now, there's something I REALLY like to hear! Have heard far too many horror tales over the years, of dogs that were totally messed up, starved, or even sold/lost by some idiot who claimed to be a trainer!

If you go this route, be very careful in making your choice. I'd also visit frequently to observe the training and check on my dog.
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post #36 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 10:03 PM
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Boot camp to me is not sending the dog away for training. It is a rallying call I have for myself. Boot Camp! I can do anything for 6 or 10 or 12 weeks, think of it as boot camp. Boot camp is a less than ideal state, where we are expected to do what we must, but it has a definite end. It is kind of like saying, "we can get through this."

I don't suggest sending dogs away for training, pretty much ever.

the hormones will come down in the bitch. But it sounds like that the dog, having his own set of issues, might not bounce back as dogs generally do. So her hormones will probably relax as the litter ages, but your boy is likely not to forget and to harbor a fear of her after what is normal.

With good temperament, a bitch might attack a cat or dog when she is late in pregnancy or if she has young puppies, when normally the bitch would rub up against the cat, and play with the dog or at least mate with him. Cats tend not to show proper respect for their canine brethren. So who cares if the cat exhibits a more healthy respect for a bitch after a pregnancy. But dogs who have a good temperament can bounce back even from dog fights where blood is drawn, relatively quicikly -- dogs NOT bitches. Bitches are like us. They remember forEVER. What you have is a dog that probably is dog-reactive out of fearfulness, and this doesn't seem to go away, even when the bitch is back to normal. He might continue to bark, lunge, act a fool, even when she is back to normal, because he doesn't get it. It will be far easier to acclimate him to a puppy and as the puppy grows, he is not afraid of it because it has latched onto him as a surrogate parent and that usually works. Getting him used to a bitch that has already had words with him, I just don't know. It really depends on your dog.

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post #37 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 11:07 PM
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[quote/]So who cares if the cat exhibits a more healthy respect for a bitch after a pregnancy[/quote]

Somebody is not a cat person 😁

IMHO your male will hold no grudge later. Pregnancy and protectiveness by the bitch is understood by your other dog instinctively. It seems to me that often people project their own feelings about an event like this - and more often than not it's not how the dog feels about it. Whether it seems like it or not, proximity now is actually conditioning both of them to "deal" with the others presence. Only time will tell if these two will manage to become friends, but your attitude will also play a major role. If keeping them both is a goal, give it time and try to be as low key as possible once they are allowed to mingle again...

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Mark Twain

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post #38 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 05:34 AM Thread Starter
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Situation has resolved, for better or worse. I asked about resources for finding homes for pups on CL and was contacted by a rescue willing to take in pups and find homes and to take Mom temporarily while pups nurse. This morning foster mom and her son came to get puppies and Shasta the adult female. Now I don't know what normal is for a post partem dog regarding meeting new people but she was very fearful and barked and growled and woman and her son. She has been shy in the past but never such a strong reaction. She had warmed up after just a few minutes in the past. I could tell the foster was very nervous and hadn't much experience fostering. I offered to keep mom and pups with me if rescue could donate some food. They didn't like this idea, probably worried id have second thoughts. They proposed to just take pups and bottle feed. Keeping my female home and not subjecting her to stress of another new home, especially due to how acutely stressed she was at the time I didn't argue. I actually was under impression California even had a law against seperating pups from Mom before 8 weeks. At that point I figured if they were willing to put in work for pups god bless. Hopefully the pups go quick and are able to generate some helpful revenue for the rescue to help all the senior dogs, mixed breeds, sick dogs etc. That don't attract interest like a pup.
So now it's about managing and improving dynamic between my male and female. Her hormones will return to normal and hopefully he be more comfortable around her.
I'm posting a few recent pics of pups I'm dying to know if they are mixed or not let me know what you think
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post #39 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 08:20 AM
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So the pups are gone, and you kept the Mom with you? Doesn't sound like a responsible rescue group to me, CL isn't the best place to go for pet animal resources. My guess is they will sell those pups as soon as they can.

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post #40 of 125 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 11:12 AM
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They took 2 week old pups from their mother????? And wouldn't consider letting them stay with you to keep them with their mother?????

Hand feeding pups is a HUGE task! That isn't even an logical choice.

It's to late now for any input on this situation but for anyone who is reading this in the future, this is not a reputable rescue nor an option any rescue I've ever worked with would choose to do.




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