"What has this breed become?" - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 102 (permalink) Old 05-31-2011, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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"What has this breed become?"

I hear people all the time disagreeing at what the breed has become and disapproving of most other breeders and owners, which begs the question: why was there never a registry or "club" created like the one created to purchase a new Ferrari?
Not just anyone can waltz into a dealership and throw down some money and order one of those, and that's just a car (sorry if that hurts some Ferrari owners ) so I'm left wondering how come there was so much effort put into the standard, the tests, the registry, etc, but just anyone has been free this whole time to do as they please with them? (by that I mean branch off into show lines, sport, etc, not strictly "working")
I understand there is a registry in place which won't register puppies of untitled dogs, but Max clearly stated "Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog for I have struggled all my life for that aim!"... so why not create a main line of identifyable "working dogs" which would be the main source for breeding and allow fanciers to work off of those as they please but keep a "pure" or "registered" line going to derive from?
When one says they own a Ferrari, you know they mean business, but when one tells you they own a German Shepherd, they could mean anything, really.
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post #2 of 102 (permalink) Old 05-31-2011, 01:43 PM
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Wayne can probably give you more info, but there is a movement in Germany to do just that -- strictly promote the "working line" of GSD's. I believe it is called RS2000 or something like that.
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post #3 of 102 (permalink) Old 05-31-2011, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Jax's Mom View Post
I hear people all the time disagreeing at what the breed has become and disapproving of most other breeders and owners, which begs the question: why was there never a registry or "club" created like the one created to purchase a new Ferrari?
Not just anyone can waltz into a dealership and throw down some money and order one of those, and that's just a car (sorry if that hurts some Ferrari owners ) so I'm left wondering how come there was so much effort put into the standard, the tests, the registry, etc, but just anyone has been free this whole time to do as they please with them? (by that I mean branch off into show lines, sport, etc, not strictly "working")
I understand there is a registry in place which won't register puppies of untitled dogs, but Max clearly stated "Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog for I have struggled all my life for that aim!"... so why not create a main line of identifyable "working dogs" which would be the main source for breeding and allow fanciers to work off of those as they please but keep a "pure" or "registered" line going to derive from?
When one says they own a Ferrari, you know they mean business, but when one tells you they own a German Shepherd, they could mean anything, really.
Those who have working line dogs, feel that show dogs should be working line dogs, because they are more correct in their opinion than the show line dogs. They believe that the show dog does not have the proper temperament and is not the desirable type for a working dog.

The showline dogs think their dogs have correct conformation and temperament for the breed. They think the working line dogs are hyper idiots and not what Max ever intended the breed to become. Their dogs HAVE been used as war dogs, and police dogs, and SAR dogs, and Cadaver dogs, and increasing the demands on a working dog to the extent that the dogs produced do not have the same character does not make those dogs more correct.

So it depends where you are coming from. This site has a LOT of working line people, and they want it all, they want the pretty dog contests too. I think that there is room in the world for the different types of GSDs. And if you all make up conformation shows where the working line dogs win, in a number of decades, two, three maybe, you all will be having this conversation again amongst yourselves, because some will be wanting to win win win on the conformation end, and some will be putting the majority of their effort developing temperament/utility and the lines will draw apart again. One specific line of dogs will become prominent in the conformation area and bred to exclusively for that purpose, and another chasm will build.

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post #4 of 102 (permalink) Old 05-31-2011, 02:33 PM
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I wonder if there ever was a time when the conformation dog WAS a superior working dog, and if it ever was, what is different about then and now???
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post #5 of 102 (permalink) Old 05-31-2011, 02:36 PM
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IMO, follow the money. The big industry cash is behind the whole show circuit, and that has spawned an industry (including breeding to that standard, different from what Max intended) to support it. WL just does not have the financial resources to compete, at least in the US.

It is a dang shame. I have a Fritz von Farbenspiel granddaughter that I was told could work. WL/SL cross. You almost have to beg her to get off the ottoman to get a drink. She has skin problems, and is the laziest dog I've ever seen. I worked her for about 6 months in Schutzhund with 2 national level helpers before a new business venture took me out of the country for a while. She was going nowhere. Home field advantage with her helper for a Sch1? Not a chance. My WL male has been dominating her since the day he came home. She was almost 3 at that point.

I took my male to a small local pet store where I buy some things because the owner wanted to meet him. The first words out of her mouth were, "Oh my God, he's beautiful! THAT is how a GSD SHOULD look!". She went on to tell me her experiences in the show ring for years (with yorkies) and how she thought some of the GSDs in the ring did not look physically capable of working.

I realize there are SL people here that will angrily disagree, that is why I opened my message with "IMO".
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post #6 of 102 (permalink) Old 05-31-2011, 02:40 PM
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As a working line "peep", I have zero interest in "pretty dog contests". Wait, less than zero.
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post #7 of 102 (permalink) Old 05-31-2011, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
As a working line "peep", I have zero interest in "pretty dog contests". Wait, less than zero.
I do have an interest... but not that interest, while the breed remains the same, what the show people do, affects all. Personally, I do not feel offended if people doesn't recognize my dog as the same breed than the west german showlines they are used to see.

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post #8 of 102 (permalink) Old 05-31-2011, 03:19 PM
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You are correct, Catu. What I meant was to have my dog judged in that venue. I am not offended when people tell me my GSD looks like a wolf, and don't mind explaining either.
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post #9 of 102 (permalink) Old 05-31-2011, 03:21 PM
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the breed has become what humans have made it

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post #10 of 102 (permalink) Old 05-31-2011, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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Setting aside for a moment all arguments about who could or could not be less interested in the line that they don't own, why not just create an exclusive "pure" line which cannot be adulterated by "unqualified", propogators?
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