First time/inexperienced stud - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-22-2010, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
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First time/inexperienced stud

I am about to breed my Dutch Shepherd Zonya. The concern I have is that it will be the first time the male has ever been used as a stud. This is also my girl's first time as well. I ideally did not want to have two first time dogs, but this is how it has come down to for me to get the genetics and lines that I desire.

In the past with GSD's, I have bred to an experienced male, and usually drop a bitch off at the studs place, picking up when finished. I have observed several breedings, but once again, all were experienced males.

Zonya is on day 10 of her cycle, I brought her to the stud's home on day 8 and he showed little interest other than sniffing her a lot. Brought her again today (day 10) and he showed much more interest, lots of sniffing/licking and playing/flirting and grabbing her neck. I don't think she is quite ready yet as she has not begun flagging and standing yet. Today, blood has changed from red to orangish yellow, so I'm assuming she will be ready soon. I chose not to do P testing or the premate, as the male is close by and I didn't think too much ahead about them both being inexperienced. Figured we would have no problem breeding every other day for a while to ensure conception. Now of course I'm wishing I had, just to know.

So my question is how you have dealt with inexperienced studs. What do you do to ensure mating takes place? How do you prep the male? I was assuming he would be eager and mounting her right away, yet he has kept his distance and hasn't even tried to mount once. I know experienced males who will only mate when the female is ready, but a virgin male doing that? Have you experienced that? I'm worried that he is holding back because he doesn't have any idea what he's supposed to be doing. Yes, day 10 could be a bit early, but I would still feel better if he was at least trying.

We will be trying every night now, but now I would like some advice on what we should do different. Because she hasn't shown signs of being ready, we've just let them run together in the stud's backyard. Today whenever he would sniff/lick her, she would stand still, but not flag. But if she was laying on the ground and he did that, she would flag. Should we encourage him to mount her? Hold her, 'help' him enter?

Going into this, I know she averages about 21-23 day visible cycles, usually bleeding by day 2, blood changing to light yellow by day 12 -14 at the latest. In my head, my ideal breeding schedule was days 10, 12, and 14 with a possible day 16.

Everyone is telling me not to worry, that nature will take its course. But then again, they all have imported proven studs, and have not dealt with inexperienced boys. I really worry about missing, as there is a lot of interest in the litter from all over North America. Of course I'm kicking myself for not doing the testing at my vets. I think tomorrow I will bring her in and see what they can tell me, just wanted to get some insight from everyone here who is experienced in this.

So I'm crossing my fingers, hoping that maybe it is still really early, maybe she is a day 18 type of female, and I'm all worried for nothing and everything will go just fine naturally. But if he needs help, I'd like to know what to do to get him into the act...

Thanks!

Rochele Smit
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Kiesha von Traumland: 7yrs old, GSD
FO PA Zonya de Gestreepte Tijger: 3yrs old, Dutchie
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2010, 12:11 AM
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I am kind of surprised that a stud owner with an inexperienced stud would just let them run around together. I mean, the stud has more to lose here. Generally a good stud will not get viscious with a bitch regardless, but bitches can be bitchy. When he mounts her, he will probably be rather awkward and clumsy, mounting several times.

This can upset a female, especially if she is not ready to stand yet.

If she nails him, it can literally ruin him as a stud dog.

So I am surprised you all are just letting them let nature take its course.

When we do this, we are in a small cramped office, I hold my bitch's head while the stud owner has the bitch over her knee ensuring she does not sit down during the event. The dog mounts and she is in a position to, uh, help. Yeah, not going to be a stud owner any time soon.

She is also in a position to feel whether or not there is a tie. After the tie, if both dogs are amiable, then you can relax and wait for things to get on.

But a bad experience to a young dog -- dogs need confidence to do the deed. If he is eyeing every bitch with suspicion wondering when she will turn and nail him, well that complicates things.

Good luck. Hope nature isn't too brutal. I have been present at breedings that were done that way without issues. I guess it all depends on the dog/bitch. And as you have maidens, you really don't know.

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2010, 02:10 AM
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I would hold her like Sue said and let the male mount her, the stud owner may have to guide him in due to the male being inexperienced. If he is rather young you maybe able to breed 2 days in a row and then give him a day off and do the final breeding. I don't like to muzzle the female as it give her the thoughts of something being wrong and she may react differently.

I repeat I never let a virgin female run free with even a experienced male for that chance she may turn on him when they tie. Most females when they have never bred have issues when they tie for the first time as will a male also

Good luck!!!

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2010, 12:18 PM
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2010, 09:05 PM
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Holland, so on day two, do you play Elton John's The Bitch is Back??? LOL

Heidi Ho, Odie
Joy-Joy, Bear Cub, Hepsi-Pepsi
Cujo2, Karma Chameleon
Ramona the Pest, Kojak -- who loves you baby?
Tiny Tinnie, Susie's Uzzi, Kaiah -- The Baby Monster.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2010, 09:21 PM
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I don't know that one..but maybe
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2010, 09:47 PM
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Maybe I am dating myself.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2010, 09:50 PM
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Oops I do know that one
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-27-2010, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Once again, I worried too much. Nature was pleasant.

Rochele Smit
Centennial Working Dogs

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Kiesha von Traumland: 7yrs old, GSD
FO PA Zonya de Gestreepte Tijger: 3yrs old, Dutchie
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-27-2010, 10:00 PM
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I hope you update with a pupdate!! I love Dutchies, and I remember the stud was so very handsome...nice dark boy. I wish you & Zonya luck with the whelping!

Jane~
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