Puppy owner in a panic - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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Puppy owner in a panic

I haven't been around much, but I know there are still trusted folks on here that have this experience.

I have one of my pup owners that has a male pup 5 1/2 months old, comes up lame, initially in one front leg and then a back leg. Owner takes Beau to the vet and the vet has to x-ray everything $$$$. So after hip, elbow, shoulder and all 4 legs x-rayed, the vet says he either has an infection somewhere or he has pano. In the conversation, the vet tells the pup owner that the pup is predisposed to hip dysplasia and this gives him an even higher chance of that and other arthritic changes as he gets older.

So, after trying to read between the lines while talking to a very upset and worried puppy owner, I get his vets number and give the vet a call. I was very happy that the vet was happy to talk to me and we had a very good discussion. Turns out the vet is pretty confident he has pano, but because his white count was over 20,000 and he had a fever he gave antibiotics (not my prefered reason to give antibiotics, but nonetheless). I asked him about the hips as I was concerned that if this pup shows signs of dysplasia, it would greatly influence the use of his parents for breeding again. He says that his hips didn't look dysplastic, but the ball wasn't "perfectly smooth", the pup was not sedated for the x-rays, and this vet doesn't do OFA xrays because they are "to difficult".

So I call my pup owner back and tell him that I am much more comfortable that Beau is not "a cripple" (his words earlier) and that I am pretty comfortable with the dx of Pano. In the conversation he catches me up on a few things, one of which being that he switched from BARF diet to "Royal Canin German Shepherd" kibble. I told him I wasn't familiar with it. He asked me to look into it and make sure it was ok as he trusts my knowledge of diets.

So I look it up and find the first ingredient is chicken meal, no byproducts and no corn, but I'm not tickled with the meal. Any of ya'll familiar with Royal Canin, and should I tell him to change? They were not happy with the prep time and effort for BARF, and I understand, but I just can't help but agree with Ed Frawley's conection between dog food and Pano.

Any and all comments welcome.

Thanks,

Jeffrey

I hope one day that I can be half the man that my GSD thinks I am.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 07:23 PM
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Re: Puppy owner in a panic

The german shepherd formula not for puppies. There is def. a correlation. I fed canidae als for a number of years, only problems I had with pano were on that food. Went to raw, went away within a week. If you look on rc's website, I believe the gsd formula is for 18 months or over 2 yrs before feeding not a 5 1/2 mon. pup

Angela

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 07:24 PM
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Re: Puppy owner in a panic

If they're feeding the RC Maxi - it's not recommended for puppies
"MAXI German Shepherd 24 - Dog Food for Adult German Shepherds Over 15 Months of Age"

Ingredients: Chicken meal, rice, brown rice, chicken fat, soy protein isolate, oat, barley, natural chicken flavor, powdered cellulose, sodium silico aluminate, dried beet pulp (sugar removed), anchovy oil (source of EPA/DHA), soya oil, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, dried egg product, salt, sodium tripolyphosphate, DL-methionine, L-tyrosine, taurine, dried brewers yeast extract (source of mannan-oligosaccharides), vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), D-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin (vitamin B2) supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], choline chloride, glucosamine hydrochloride, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), Trace minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], tea (green tea extract), chondroitin sulfate, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols (source of Vitamin E) and citric acid, rosemary extract.

http://www.royalcanin.us/products/default.aspx


I actually prefer meal as an ingredient as if it's the meat then there is actually less meat protein.
Named meal is meat that has the moisture removed.

So a food like this:
Chicken, Rice, Salmon
has less meat protein than a food like this:
Chicken Meal, Rice, Salmon Meal

And once you start adding carbs you can actually end up with more carbs than meat.

Chicken, rice, oatmeal probably has more carbs than meat
Chicken Meal, rice, oatmeal may really have more meat than carbs.

Sorry the puppy "parents" got so concerned after the vet visit, hope all turns out to be ok!

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 07:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Puppy owner in a panic

That was kinda my concern, but no first hand knowledge with royal canin.

I am gonna tell him to switch. I hope he will give BARF a shot and see a change in the pup enough to convince him it is worth the effort, but will give him some recomendations on other kibble if he is set on dog food.

Jeffrey

I hope one day that I can be half the man that my GSD thinks I am.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 07:43 PM
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Re: Puppy owner in a panic

http://www.peteducation.com/article....2+1561&aid=466

"The dog may show a reluctance to walk or exercise. When the affected bones are squeezed, the dog reacts painfully. Occasionally, affected dogs will have a fever, tonsillitis, or an ***elevated white blood cell coun***."

I starred the WBC.

They want to be looking at the calcium/phos ratio in their kibble, I believe. Lots of threads in the puppy feeding area on that!

I would also wonder if a different vet and checking the x-rays elsewhere might not be a good idea?

And as always if they are in a Tick area...





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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 07:50 PM
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Re: Puppy owner in a panic

I keep reading all these posts and where other folks see pano, I see tick disease. Same symptoms, often difficult to tell without further testing. As Jean said, something to rule out, look for high WBC, sometimes low WBC, low RBC or platelets....thought I'd post here so that the links will show in my signature.

Also, the lyme vaccine can do this....


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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Puppy owner in a panic

I forgot to mention, they tested for lymes, it was negative, but thought he would repeat it if the symptoms persisted.

Jeffrey

I hope one day that I can be half the man that my GSD thinks I am.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Puppy owner in a panic

I just called him and shared this info with him. He was grateful and said he would go back to the raw diet until he can find a good quality natural dog food.

Jeffrey

I hope one day that I can be half the man that my GSD thinks I am.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 10:02 PM
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Re: Puppy owner in a panic

Hey SafetyMedic,

Ok, I understand and I have used Royal Canin before. I dont like it. I really like food that isnt formualted to puppys growing bones, I will never recommend that food. I use K9 Kraving. I will be open and straight forward, no BS.

I have always used Iams until the dog food scare. A good Friends and well respected breeder, Megan Judge of " Haus Juris German Shepherds" informed me about K9 Kraving. I did searches on it and decided to go that way. Since the switch, I have yet (knock on wood) to have any medical problems, and or weight issues. I have a 13 YO, who is infamous with reoccuring skin tumors, acid reflux, Heart Murmur, mamory glad tumor, you name she had it. With the new switch, the skin tumors stopped, the acid reflux and vomiting stopped.
I dont have children and my girls are that. They eat better than I do. Vitamins, Brewers Yeast, Fish oil, Cod Liver oil, Flaxseed Oil, Egg, Cottage Cheese, Yogurt, sweet Potato, cheese. anything organic and raw to help with growing bones, calcium , etc. I suggest raw frozen Marrow bones too. the Bones Uncooked Marrow, Boosts Immunity with in your dog as it Marrow Transplants do in humans. Frozen, means they have to work for it, licking, biting and chewing to get the just Deserts..
I wish you the best, but the Vet should have had the Pup relaxed when the Xrays were done. I am begining to see a trend in Vets I dont like and dont trust with my girls. seems as if they dont car about the breed/puppy, only about the almighty dollar.
Good Luck.

Lead by example. Integrity is doing what is right even when no one is looking.

J R Marean
Yarest Von Wilhendorf - 11/03/2010
Dame der Gerechtigkeit Vom Haus Juris - 07/2009
Wolke Vom Mattenburcherland - 04/2006-07/2009 RIP (my love)
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-17-2009, 09:12 PM
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Re: Puppy owner in a panic

May I also suggest a food that might be easier to find and purchase.

Life’s Abundance Premium Health Food for Puppies & Adult Dogs

http://www.healthypetnet.com/HealthyPetN...tegory=Dog_Food

Lead by example. Integrity is doing what is right even when no one is looking.

J R Marean
Yarest Von Wilhendorf - 11/03/2010
Dame der Gerechtigkeit Vom Haus Juris - 07/2009
Wolke Vom Mattenburcherland - 04/2006-07/2009 RIP (my love)
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