Question About Breeding & EPI - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Question About Breeding & EPI

Breeders,

First of all, I just want to make it known that I do not have a confirmed diagnosis on this, we are in progress of testing. So, this is just for my own personal curiosity presently.

From what I've read and heard of EPI, it seems to be a genetically inherited condition, please correct me if I'm wrong.

What would you, as a breeder, do if you sold a pup to someone and later found out it was diagnosed with EPI? Is this something a breeder normally takes responsibility for? I'm not saying I think they should or should not, because I really have NO idea, which is why I am asking. And what about the sire and dam? Would it still be ok for them to breed, and if not, how do you know which one (if it's only one parent) is responsible for the EPI?

Also, can a dog with EPI still work? Is it fair to the dog? Will it put more stress on it's system and make the condition worse, or have any sort of effect on it at all? And if so, what kind of work? Is it limited to non-strenuous activities like obedience, etc. or would it still be ok competing in high activity events like agility or schutzhund?

I really appreciate any feedback you can give me.

-Jackie
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 04:57 PM
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Re: Question About Breeding & EPI

When you say "take responsibility for" what do you mean?
Replace the dog?
Pay for all testing and meds for the rest of their life?

Assuming the breeder did not knowingly breed EPI affected dogs, or known producers.... it would depend on the contract. I would not expect the meds and vet bills to be paid for. If bought as a working prospect, perhaps a discount on another pup??

EPI dogs, depending on the severity, can live very active, healthy lives.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 05:00 PM
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Re: Question About Breeding & EPI

Here are some links a friend shared with me while researching puppies......for what they are worth.

Texas A&M University EPI Research

Texas A&M University EPI Research Paper


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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 05:04 PM
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Re: Question About Breeding & EPI

From what I have read,NO they should not breed dogs with known EPI or SIBO.As far as responsibility,I would say NO they don't take responsibility.If they knowingly breed a dog with these things I think they should but most likely won't.
Hope you get negative results on the tests.EPI is a PITA from what I understand.

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Question About Breeding & EPI

Quote:
Quote:When you say "take responsibility for" what do you mean?
I used a loose term like that because I am not a breeder, so I don't know myself what that entails. I suppose it's different from one breeder to another, I was just curious to see what a breeder's response might be.

I agree with you, I wouldn't expect medical bills and medicines to be paid for for any kind of health problem. I do not think that should be the breeder's responsibility.

You mentioned a discount on another pup...That was more along the lines of what I was thinking some breeders would do.

And I'm glad to hear there's optimism regarding an EPI dog living an active, healthy life.

Thanks for your response.

-Jackie
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Question About Breeding & EPI

Wayne,

Thank you for the links.

Allie,

Thanks, I hope so too. Unfortunately I too have heard that it can be quite difficult to manage at times, depending on the severity.

-Jackie
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 05:07 PM
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Re: Question About Breeding & EPI

EPI is believed to be genetic, though the exact mode of inheritance is unknown. Research is currently being done to help answer that question, and also try to find a genetic marker so that carriers can be identified.

As for what would the breeder do, it would depend on the contract and if there is a health warranty or not. We've never produced a dog with EPI, so no actual experience from the breeder side of things, but if we did we'd cover it the same way under our warranty we'd cover bad hips/elbows, or other genetic health issues: refund or replacement.

In terms of how it affects working ablity, quality of life or anything else, that depends on the dog. I've only known a few dogs with EPI, but all of the ones I have known have done jsut fine once the condition was identified and adjustments to diet/supplements were made. I've heard of other cases that aren't so easily managed, but not known them personally. 2 of the EPI dogs I know went on to achieve SchH3 after diagnosis.



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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Question About Breeding & EPI

Chris,

Thank you for that information. And thank you for sharing the stories of the EPI dogs that went on to SchH3. If they were able to attain titles that prestigious, it makes me think it could be possible for other dogs affected too. Again, of course, depending on the severity.

-Jackie
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 06:38 PM
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Re: Question About Breeding & EPI

Jackie, We have not produced EPI in our kennel, but have had a dog with this disease. I was told that it takes both the sire and dam to be carriers to produce a pup with EPI. And to answer what we would do if one of our pups come down with it, Well the said pup would be covered just as Chris would cover her pups. As for the said dog living a normal life, well Sasha's life was shortened by her disease. We have found that one of Annie's littermates have come down with EPI, but before that our male was the stud to this litter and Annie was given to us for the price of stud fee's and since this litter Odon was neutered and placed in a home. Now we are planning the same for Annie although she doesn't have EPI, we still don't want to take that chance of producing a pup with it. Having be on the end of it and having to treat a dog with EPI we would never want to have one of our clients have to go thru what we have. There are a lot of members here that own EPI dogs and can also give you info as I'm sure I'm missing or left out a few things about this disease.

But for a breeder to produce this disease and than keep breeding the 2 said dogs would not be responseable thing to do!!
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 11:59 PM
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Re: Question About Breeding & EPI

So lets say you own the stud and you find out the litter he just sired had one EPI pup.

What do you do? Do you immediately stop using him - even though it 'takes two to tango' so-to-speak?

And reverse it - what if you have the dam?

Isn't this another 'don't throw the baby out with the bathwater' situation?
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