mal gsd cross? why? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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mal gsd cross? why?

K9 police man i talk with sometimes told me that most of the dogs here are mal gsd crosses? Some are pure gsd or mal but most are crosses between the 2 ?> Anyone know why? I looked it up and google some people call this KNPV lines? Strange.

WAs wondering if anyone out there knows about this.
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post #2 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 05:51 PM
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Because they often do superior work....no more no less....I have seen some nice Mal/GSD crosses in LE work.
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post #3 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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cliff are they often better than either breeds you think? for patrol?
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post #4 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 10:35 PM
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Depends on the dog....a good GS is great dog, a good Mal is a great dog, and a good Mal/GS cross is a great dog....but you also have some in all three that are not good for LE. But the percentages for getting a good working Mal, Mal/GS cross is probably higher....that's why you see them....especially in KNPV work.
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post #5 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffson1 View Post
Depends on the dog....a good GS is great dog, a good Mal is a great dog, and a good Mal/GS cross is a great dog....but you also have some in all three that are not good for LE. But the percentages for getting a good working Mal, Mal/GS cross is probably higher....that's why you see them....especially in KNPV work.
Is this because of a blending of traits, or does the much greater difference in DNA (and yet still statistically so small a change lol) bring or do something unique?

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Beschützer des Jägers v.d. Sportwaffen
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SG Aska v. Ketscher Wald
Yōkai v.d. Sportwaffen
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post #6 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 12:09 PM
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In a nutshell, 'hybrid vigor' Both breeds are good in and of themselves, but as an end user dog, a cross will bring that hybrid vigor in to the dog that *can* make it better/healthier than either breed individually.

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post #7 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 12:52 PM
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The genetics that made the GSD a great working dog have largely been lost. Some people like Helmut Raiser have advocated cross breeding to the Malinois in an effort to save the breed. The show line people ruined the breed.
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post #8 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 01:02 PM
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In a nutshell, 'hybrid vigor' Both breeds are good in and of themselves, but as an end user dog, a cross will bring that hybrid vigor in to the dog that *can* make it better/healthier than either breed individually.

Ang
Yes but the much greater difference in DNA, as I understand, will make the offsprings traits be a crapshoot

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post #9 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 01:04 PM
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The genetics that made the GSD a great working dog have largely been lost. Some people like Helmut Raiser have advocated cross breeding to the Malinois in an effort to save the breed. The show line people ruined the breed.
There are still really really nice genetics out there. Not lost, just rare and I don't believe appreciated well. The fact that the best sport dogs, best PPD/MWD/Police K9's, best service animals, and the house dogs are rarely related in any way is a major problem.

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post #10 of 90 (permalink) Old 06-24-2013, 01:35 PM
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There are a few really strong GSDs out there, but they are extremely hard to find and I would still argue that the original genetics that created the breed are lost. If you look at some of the photos in The German Shepherd Dog in Word and Pictures, by v. Stephanitz, you will see the dogs doing things that no modern GSD is capable of. One photo shows a GSD scrambling up a straight tree to a height of 13 feet. Von Stephanitz writes about testing a dog by charging the dog on horseback and the dog charges back toward him and jumps up and bites the horse on the neck so hard he had to beat the dog off with his riding crop.
While the protection sports at least try to select for working ability, I would argue that schH has resulting in selecting for some of the wrong genetics. All that is really needed is very high prey drive and big grips. There is no evaluation of environmental insecurites. The gun shot was taken out of the BH, so now a gunshy dog can pass. The sport is primarily an obedience sport, so dominance is selected away from. The bite scenarios are so totally predictable that the dog needs very little courage. The sport is more about the trainer than the dog. The SV is about money, not the breed. That is why the highline dogs generally are an embarassment to watch in the bitework. The helpers are coached on how to go easy on the dogs in the Seiger show. IMO, they are not nearly the working dogs thet were originally bred to be. Not to mention the health problems.
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