Question about coat/color - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-28-2016, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaesthetic View Post
@Castlemaid: Thanks for explaining about the sable patterned; that's really interesting and I hadn't heard of them before.
Does mottling stay like that or continue to recede more into the tan color? Your explanation of the allele inheritance makes perfect sense, for some reason I assumed that mom would have been sable/sable but you're right, given the dam's parentage it would make much more sense that she is sable/black&tan and would have passed on the black&tan gene.

@Cschmidt88: is there a dominant allele to all of the recessive ones that appears in other breeds just not shepherds? Also, is it possible for the sable pattern to happen but with bi-colors or solids?
Oh, yeah I know she is long haired, I guess I was just wondering if there are varying degrees of thickness/longness of the fur and if so, whether you'd be able to tell from this young.
She isn't actually my puppy, I've been talking to the breeder and may possibly be getting her, but nothing is final right now. This is the first/only picture I have seen of her so I am not really sure what she looked like as a puppy.
Thanks for the links, I will definitely be reading the first one. I've read the Frankenhaus page before and found it absolutely fascinating. I'm a molecular and cellular biology major so I love exploring about how the genes interact with each other to form different color/pattern combinations.

Is there a different allele for black & tan and black & red or is that just a variation in expression of pigmentation?
On the "a" Agouti locus (which all GSD coat colors are on) there is one dominant color and that is true sable aka clear/tipped/shaded sable. This is the color you see on Malinois, Collies/Shelties, etc(Ay).

GSD sable is wild type agouti sable(aw), then black/tan(as), and bicolor is "tan points"(at), then you have the recessive black(a). (It's referred to as recessive black because the gene responsible for black in almost all other breeds is a different gene which is dominant).

As for "aw" GSD sable interacting with bicolor or solid black, I'm not 100% but I do believe it interacts with bicolor. My friend has a sable male out of a bicolor father and sable dam, he has notable tan points despite his sable.He is most likely "aw at" @mycobraracr 's wife's dog. (Mind if I share a better picture of his markings? )
Ivisaruk River vom Lytle

The recessive black gene interacting with the sable isn't really understood yet. Some suspected that's what creates black sables, however I know many sables who carry for black but are not black sables at all. My bitch for example is "aw a", and my male's sire is also "aw a"



And the sire to my male, Bruno vom Midlicher Land who is also "aw a"
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Cschmidt88 View Post
As for "aw" GSD sable interacting with bicolor or solid black, I'm not 100% but I do believe it interacts with bicolor. My friend has a sable male out of a bicolor father and sable dam, he has notable tan points despite his sable.He is most likely "aw at" @mycobraracr 's wife's dog. (Mind if I share a better picture of his markings? )
Ivisaruk River vom Lytle
Nope. He's the male laying down. He is a sable.

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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-11-2016, 10:49 PM
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The breeders told me I got a black and red german shepard; I came here and everyone told me I got a sable puppy. Likely will be patterned sable?
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