Dogs versus home security gadgets - Page 5 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #41 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 09:28 PM
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You now see the results of indiscriminate breeding. This is why the Schutzhund test was created. It was to provide proper qualities in the GSD. If they didn’t pass at least the first level they were not allowed to be registered. The so called deficient dogs were sold as pets or culled. That breeding pair would not be bred again. Careful tracking of the breeding produced quality dogs that had the temperament to be defensive yet gentle around the home as well as easily trained. Even with good breeding without training the dog may or may not protect.

Here is a great site about protection dogs. He has lots of really cool videos that may open your eyes.

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post #42 of 47 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 12:46 PM
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So I watched the videos, and have always been curious about one thing. Will the trained protection dogs go after someone the same way, but without that person being in a bite suit? Are they reacting to the sleeve, or just the threat? I don’t train or have interest in a personal protect dog, so I’ve never researched it. I know the suit is for the protection of the person wearing it, but will they latch on without the suit? I know I’ve seen dogs do it on TV shows (Live PD, Cops). Are the results the same for those trained in personal protection? Or do they train the police K9’s differently?

I know my pool guy went into my backyard one time, without us knowing he was there (normally we lock the dogs inside when pool and landscapers come by), and Lyka did not back down at all. She circled him continuously, and I’m sure if the pool guy didn’t have a skimmer on a pole to push her away when she rushed him, it could have turned out my worse.

She has also gone after a contractor who willy nilly walked into my backyard. She lunged, grabbed his pants, and started the death shake. When I called her off, she came, but as soon as the guy started moving, she went after him again with nips to his ankles, following him until he walked out through the gate. So I know she will protect the yard, and she protects the house from two relatives she hates, but she’s never been trained, and I have suspicions that if an actual intruder came inside my house, she likely would either book it outside and bark, or bark inside, without doing anything. But I still can’t find anyone willing to put on a suit and test it out 😂.

I didn’t get her for protection though, and I wouldn’t unless I was willing to put a lot of training behind the dog to make sure they were stable enough TO train. We rely on our cameras, and rely on Lyka to for nothing, except maybe the barking, hoping it will be another defensive line an intruder would have to be willing to get past. And even then, if it didn’t work, I would never fault her for it. She’s a family member, she’s our girl, and we would never put expectations on her to be the only line of defense. The only of our brood that I think would actually maul someone is our Husky/GSD, and the only mauling he would do to an intruder would be mauling by tongue. He would probably lick the poor person to death, and if he didn’t, he’d likely just keep bringing him toys to try to get the intruder to play with him. Lmao.
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post #43 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 02:13 PM
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Properly trained protection dogs will hit what ever is convent or what they have been trained for. There are hidden sleeves and street looking padded suits available.

When I trained sport protection then began helping at the police dept. I won lots of bags dog food on bets that my “sport dog” would not hit hidden protection equipment. One new officer scoffed the equipment and insisted on just his double sweat shirt and sweat pants. We did everything to convince him this was not a good idea. The result was a trip to the ER with very serious bites. This was a very rough ex USMC guy. Afterwards he said my dog could go on patrol any time with him. A class act for a mistake

If you have a trained protection dog you had best be trained also in proper handling. Be sure you home owners insurance covers you. Were I you I’d go to permit to carry a firearm class to learn your responsibilities. You dog will need an iron clad recall under the worst distraction and the ability to be called off a persuit. That was part of our “sport dog” training long before police dog training. You would be surprised how many LE dogs have weak recalls under this pressure. The group I worked with had many specific certifications the dogs were required to pass before you could use them for situations. Basically all “negotions “ were over and the situation had gone critical “must stop now” before a dog could be sent to capture.

Just be really careful in choosing a protection dog.

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post #44 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 11:56 AM
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I have had large GSDs and home protection devices.

The home protection devices are cheap enough that they are a "Why not?" decision. Might as well, for the cost.

I also have bears on my property occasionally. If you are ever in a situation where you have to choose between dealing with the bear, or dealing with the dog, run toward the bear. This is real world advice from someone who has been within petting distance of both.

I can't speak for anyone else's experience but my last GSD drew blood on two people who tried to enter the house without permission when my wife was home alone. Run toward the bear.
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post #45 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Bentwings1 View Post
You now see the results of indiscriminate breeding. This is why the Schutzhund test was created. It was to provide proper qualities in the GSD. If they didn’t pass at least the first level they were not allowed to be registered. The so called deficient dogs were sold as pets or culled. That breeding pair would not be bred again. Careful tracking of the breeding produced quality dogs that had the temperament to be defensive yet gentle around the home as well as easily trained. Even with good breeding without training the dog may or may not protect.

Here is a great site about protection dogs. He has lots of really cool videos that may open your eyes.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3uhJfdFuC2I
Huh. Turns out I have had multiple GSDs that were all in the one percent he talks about. I must be lucky.
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post #46 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Bentwings1 View Post
Properly trained protection dogs will hit what ever is convent or what they have been trained for. There are hidden sleeves and street looking padded suits available.

When I trained sport protection then began helping at the police dept. I won lots of bags dog food on bets that my “sport dog” would not hit hidden protection equipment. One new officer scoffed the equipment and insisted on just his double sweat shirt and sweat pants. We did everything to convince him this was not a good idea. The result was a trip to the ER with very serious bites. This was a very rough ex USMC guy. Afterwards he said my dog could go on patrol any time with him. A class act for a mistake

If you have a trained protection dog you had best be trained also in proper handling. Be sure you home owners insurance covers you. Were I you I’d go to permit to carry a firearm class to learn your responsibilities. You dog will need an iron clad recall under the worst distraction and the ability to be called off a persuit. That was part of our “sport dog” training long before police dog training. You would be surprised how many LE dogs have weak recalls under this pressure. The group I worked with had many specific certifications the dogs were required to pass before you could use them for situations. Basically all “negotions “ were over and the situation had gone critical “must stop now” before a dog could be sent to capture.

Just be really careful in choosing a protection dog.
This kind of brings up some of my concerns about training dogs to be "protection dogs" for civilians. First, some homeowners insurance companies are already refusing to insure GSDs. Call your dog an Alsatian Shepherd for better results. If they knew it was a "protection dog" they would be less enthusiastic.

I also have a problem with "iron clad recall". That pretty well assumes that your dog has launched himself against someone who is not within arm's length. If you have a large dog trained to attack others, and that dog actually attacks someone who has not put hands on you, or is about to put hands on you, that seems like "assault with a deadly weapon." As I am sure you know, rules that apply to cops in that situation are much different than the rules for civilians.

" You would be surprised how many LE dogs have weak recalls under this pressure. "

Noting that LE dogs typically have much better training than family dogs. And, for a non-LE dog, a "weak recall" would be civil lawsuits and maybe criminal charges.
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post #47 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfy dog View Post
Years ago I watched a program where they had interviewed convicted burglars about the presence of dogs in homes. Most said that they would leave as soon as they heard a dog (any dog, any size) bark since they assumed it had alerted the owners and rather would try another home.
For me personally, they can take everything when I am gone. I don't have a clue what Deja would do when she is not crated. I hope she is friendly to them so they won't have to kill her.
I feel perfectly safe with her when I am home. When someone is at the door she alerts me but quiets when told, yet intently observes the "subject of concern" while sitting next to me. Her dark sable face, her silhouette and the fact that I have her under voice command is all that's needed for me.
I assume she will spring into action but I don't fully rely on it without protection training under her belt or does Rally count?
Maybe naive but after many years of being worried of "whatever can happen", I have decided to not live in fear.
There was another show where formerly convicted burglars showed how easy it was to get past dogs for someone who wanted to do it. They had the dogs running around wagging their tails while they looted the home.

But I didn't see any GSDs, and it would be a size large mistake to try that with any of the dogs I have had. YMMV.
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