WLGSD vs. Mali vs. Dutchie for 1st time WL owner - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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WLGSD vs. Mali vs. Dutchie for 1st time WL owner

Hey! I had a question for some of you German Shepherd PP owners out there as I'm researching to find the right breed / drive for my first PP dog in 2 or 3 years. The few breeds I'd been considering were the WLGSD, Belgian Malinois, Dutch Shepherd, etc. I liked these breeds because they're a lot more transportable than other guard dogs like the Mastiff, etc. And they train better. So, I was curious as to how you guys think your shepherds work. (I.E. I hear they're more user-friendly than the Mali as the Mali will bite it's handler when frustrated. Not certain, just things I've heard.) As well as if you'd recommend a Shepherd / Dutchie / Mali for me.

My fiance is in the Military and I don't feel safe without him, so I wanted a PP dog to take away some of those fears because let's be honest, this is one **** of a crazy society. Fido, as we will call the prospective puppy, will live indoors with us aND our Corgi mix. We wold prefer a dog that doesn't have the "Golden Retriever Bounce" as our current dog is a pretty no-nonsense dog. Fido will also be our first WL dog, so a dog that doesn't lean towards hyperactivity would be nice, though it's to my understanding good breeding will correct that. Fido won't be home alone for many hours as when we acquire Fido, I'll be a housewife. I'm willing to pour in three 1.5 hour jogs as well as games of fetch, hide and go seek, etc. Mental stimulation will come from obedience training, perhaps competitive? Or agility training, also perhaps competitive? Depends on which sport Fido takes more a liking to. A dog that can settle in the house is a must, though I hear that you have to train an "off switch" as they aren'the automatic, is that true? This dog will be apart of the family, so the dog can't have such a high drive it can't handle driving down/flying down from whichever state we're in to Florida for the Holidays. A dog that is adaptable is also a must, since we will be in the military and PCS (Permanent Change of Station) is a very real thing.

So, what do you think, would I be suitable for a WLGSD? Mali? Dutchie?

Thanks,
Robin
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 06:34 PM
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I, of course, and most here, will say working line GSD

HOWEVER - most important is the breeding and character as all the things you do want are in the WL and all the things you do NOT want are in the working lines.....

Personally - dogs without off switches make me crazy - I don't' want one, will not keep one and definitely would not breed one I thought was like this....so the character of the parents and the pedigree is most important. We here all have our own favorites and dislikes in pedigrees.....what breeder A loves, Breeder B abhores....the key is to finding a dog/litter which has been raised in a home, and whose dam lives in a home and has the appropriate character that you desire....


Lee

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 06:55 PM
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Having a dutchie... I would say WL GSD due to your comments about hyperactivity and the importance of an off switch. The mal and dutchie are a high drive, high energy dog and you need to be ready for that and willing to commit to that. What it means is that they need a serious commitment to training. Yes you can train an off switch but you better start with good genetics. With a mal and dutchie your timing has to be good, your commands crystal clear, you need to learn to read a dog well. I disagree that they all bite when frustrated but they can become frustrated quickly if they can't figure you out. Frustrated can be biting the handler, but more commonly destructiveness and non-compliance. Generally speaking a GSD is more forgiving of handler error or poor timing. BUT start with good genetics. That is the key to any breed. Find a good breeder.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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@Lee I was more than expecting WLGSD (This is a GSD website after all, why would they not recommend their loving, powerful, angels?) However, I was hoping there would be reasons listed after. "I would recommend __________ because _________, which seems to be something you want, etc. Etc. Etc." Just so I can get a feel. This was also to ask how they work with handlers (Why asked about the Mali's frustrated bite, etc.) So I can better understand what goes on under the hood.

@DutchKarin I understand. I'm more than willing to work with a dog, but I'm still human, and I KNOW I can't aptly say that I could be in the field all day working and training. I know my limits, and I truly applaud those whom can get up at 5 A.M. and work and work and work their dogs. I could never. It'd probably kill me. Plus, I'll be honest, I'm definitely going to need a user-friendly dog seeing as that it is insane to think that reading/training/working a Mali/WLGSD is anything like working the ASL, Lab, Corgi mix, Australian Shepherds I've worked before. They're different dogs bred for different purposes, with EXTREMELY different drives. So the fact that the GSD is forgiving is a heaven-sent because lord bless it be, I can't honestly say there will never be a time I misread/inaccurately assess my dog.

I do understand that genetics are everything and you can always get the exception, but I'd rather play the majority, seeing there's a higher chance I won't see the exception.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 07:36 PM
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put it this way... most mal/dutchie rescues will not adopt a dog to a handler without mal/dutch experience... few exceptions are made for those with WL GSD experience but you better have the work and titles to build your case.

it's a different league, and honestly, my opinion of course.... if you're asking the Internet if a malinois is right for you, then it probably isn't

a forgiving dog is gold!!

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Eagerly Waiting View Post
@Lee I was more than expecting WLGSD (This is a GSD website after all, why would they not recommend their loving, powerful, angels?) However, I was hoping there would be reasons listed after. "I would recommend __________ because _________, which seems to be something you want, etc. Etc. Etc." Just so I can get a feel. This was also to ask how they work with handlers (Why asked about the Mali's frustrated bite, etc.) So I can better understand what goes on under the hood.



I do understand that genetics are everything and you can always get the exception, but I'd rather play the majority, seeing there's a higher chance I won't see the exception.

well - I know my dogs have off switches - and are totally able to function as house pets as well as work and be appropriately aggressive/protective....and I have had dogs who were not protective from other bloodlines....and for a while, had a dog who had no off switch and he made me crazy - could not stand the dog....so all types come in the WL dog...and for example, I have had all 3 of these types with a common grandfather - but they were all different in 3/4 of their pedigrees....so it really really does depend on the pedigree as much as anything. I would not say that it is a majority or certain percentage at all....IMO it is totally pedigree/genetics driven if the dog has a natural off switch


Lee

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-19-2016, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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@Lee, first I thank you for being so responsive and helpful. I've solidly decided to go with a GSD. I did have a few questions for you, as your dog's pedigree sounds like something I'd like to look into. How well do they get along with other dogs? Obviously I have a current dog, but my fiance is dead-set on getting a lab or a golden (He loves both, definitely determined to get one, not sure which one yet though.) And this third dog won't come into our lives until Fido is done with PP training and at least, at the very least, 2 years old. Do they take better to dogs they grew up with? Thank you so much for all your knowledge!
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 11:33 PM
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well - I know my dogs have off switches - and are totally able to function as house pets as well as work and be appropriately aggressive/protective....and I have had dogs who were not protective from other bloodlines....and for a while, had a dog who had no off switch and he made me crazy - could not stand the dog....so all types come in the WL dog...and for example, I have had all 3 of these types with a common grandfather - but they were all different in 3/4 of their pedigrees....so it really really does depend on the pedigree as much as anything. I would not say that it is a majority or certain percentage at all....IMO it is totally pedigree/genetics driven if the dog has a natural off switch


Lee
I had a GSD, non working line, with absolutely zero off switch. This was many years ago, I loved the dog dearly but she made me absolutely crazy. I know this is an old thread but I will be getting a DS within 6 months, I'm trying to gather all the info possible. I made it clear to the breeder that he must have an off-switch. Does that jeopardize his ability to protect? I will be training mainly for protection, I just want to know your opinion on what exactly to ask for from the breeder. Can you even predict if the dog will be protective at 8 weeks?
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Julian G View Post
I had a GSD, non working line, with absolutely zero off switch. This was many years ago, I loved the dog dearly but she made me absolutely crazy. I know this is an old thread but I will be getting a DS within 6 months, I'm trying to gather all the info possible. I made it clear to the breeder that he must have an off-switch. Does that jeopardize his ability to protect? I will be training mainly for protection, I just want to know your opinion on what exactly to ask for from the breeder. Can you even predict if the dog will be protective at 8 weeks?
What has the breeder previously produced? What lines are the parents from? I'd want a Dutchie from KNPV lines personally....but would want to know the pedigree on both parents and know that the breeder I chose is very, very familiar with the breed, lines and how to match pedigree.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 11:56 PM
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What has the breeder previously produced? What lines are the parents from? I'd want a Dutchie from KNPV lines personally....but would want to know the pedigree on both parents and know that the breeder I chose is very, very familiar with the breed, lines and how to match pedigree.
Yes, it will be from KNPV lines. The breeder is reputed to be one of the best in the country.
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